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Carolyn Boroden, The Trading Zoo, Larry Levin

Does anyone have any expereince with or know anything about the following trading gurus?

Carolyn Boroden
The Trading Zoo <- Dedicated topic.
Larry Levin (Secrets of Traders)

Wanting a great place to learn and don't want to get taken.

Please feel free to e-mail direct at



[Edit by day trading: Link to dedicated topic for]
Originally posted by BruceM

I am familiar with the work of Larry Levine when he used to ACTIVELY sell his Secrets of Traders course. He basically uses Market Profile and bullish and bearish engulfments off of the 10 minute chart. I beleive you would learn more from reading Mind over Markets by Dalton.

I got an email saying that Mr Dalton was bringing out a new book soon.
Originally posted by ahk

This system is for pros--people who make their living trading--and pros trade size. One cannot make a decent return trading a couple of contracts.

If you trade 1 contract on this system will you make the same return by percentage or less?

What is the basis of the success of the system? The indicators to enter the trade? The money management? Knowing when to get out?

For you, which part of the system boosted your trading the most?
I had the natural tendency at first to overlay my methods for extra confirmation which I rarely got.

Which of your old methods were hurting you?
Originally posted by elite trader

Originally posted by ahk

This system is for pros--people who make their living trading--and pros trade size. One cannot make a decent return trading a couple of contracts.

If you trade 1 contract on this system will you make the same return by percentage or less?

I interpreted this "pro trade size" comment/requirement as the garden variety of intra-day position trading using a scaling out profit taking strategy. Another equally valid interpretation is the ultra-aggressive all-in / all-out with a small profit target, ie. a true scalping strategy using profit targets less than 2 ES points per trade.

The system advocates trading enough contracts to scale out as the points accrue using a trailing stop. The goal is to take an intraday position trade, not a lot of scalps. However, since the system has very high success rate of grabbing one point before a one point stop, a few traders do scalp with their whole positions to make their daily goal.

elite trader,

The one lot trader will not make the same percentage return as a multiple lot player. The system is rule-based (pattern recognition) backed up by tape reading to confirm price entry. There is also strict money management guidelines. Without a doubt, the most powerful part of the method for my success and all of us in the program is the entry.

When I overlayed MACD, EMAs, and Bollinger bands, I was at least one point behind the system's entries. In the ES, that's huge.

ahk - thanks for the clarification.
It sounds like you're trailing a tight stop which would mean that you often don't hit the full target during the day right?
After entry, the target is one point of profit; however, according to our money management system, all contracts would be traded after a 10 point move if the trailing stop wasn't hit. So if the theoretical target is 10 points, we don't, unfortunately, hit that too often before getting stopped out.
That's the same experience that I have had and it makes absolute logical sense. The tighter the stop the more often it will get hit. Getting the right balance for the stop is very difficult and obviously frustrating when the final target of 10 points is reached but you are out of it.

There are some traders that I know that trade to a 10 point target but move the stop to break-even and never trail it after that. Sometimes the trade goes to 9.75 points of profit (for their last partial) and then comes back and stops them out at break-even.
Our trailing stops are based solely on price action so there is no cookie cutter fomula for raising them. In general, after we take 5 points of profit, the trailing stop could be 3 points lower (2 points above entry).

Money management is not proprietary, so here's what I do: (A)Sell 1/2 position after 1 point, leave stop at entry; (B) Sell 1/8 of position at 2 points and raise stop to entry; (C) sell 1/8 of position at 3 point gain and leave stop at entry; (D) sell 1/8 position at 5 point profit and raise stop according to price action; and (e) sell remainder of position at 10 points, God willing.
Originally posted by BruceM

well that will be cool AHK! I suggest that everyone should wait at least 6 months before taking the trial so they can see all those statements....and of course make sure any and all statements you receive from any vendor are reviewed by a neutral 3rd party and don't just take the brokers this case I ASSume it would be Mirus futures as they are the ones that the room suggests to trial don't rely on them only will need at least one impartial review to make it legit if you are thinking of using this vendor or any other...ok nuff said on this...thanks for getting to those questions


No problem Bruce. I would hope that anybody who receives statements directly from a broker would accept those as actual copies. I can't imagine a reputable broker engaging in a willful fraud when there is nothing to gain and everything to lose. At any rate, I'm not sure yet if the confidentiality agreement will allow for the sharing of the information with third parties who don't have a need to know.