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Tsunami Trading Educators


http://www.tsunami-trade.com/

Here comes another system--which costs a whopping $6500--that claims to use no indicators whatsoever, only proprietary charts, to day trade the ES. I swear these sites are multiplying faster than roaches in an old soup can. What is so special about trading on price action? It's been done ever since markets existed but lately has become so new and vogue.

I've taken the free trial a couple of times and I'm not impressed. It obviously is targeting the novice trader who has spent a lot of time and money on other trading tools and still is losing money. Who else but the desperate and/or naive would wire $6500 to someone's bank account who, like most others in this con game business, won't even disclose their name, let alone a phone number. In addition to sending your money in a non-recourse fashion, new members are required to sign an unbelievably one sided disclaimer http://www.tsunami-trade.com/disclaimer.html that doesn't even tell you where this company is located. In addition, a search under "who is" reveals an anonymous front hosting company (Tucows).

In fact, the guy who runs this shop (Blade) is so paranoid and secretive that he doesn't even let other members communicate amongst themselves away from the room. He totally forbids any sharing of emails, IM, or Skype and is lightening quick to erase any such posts. On several occasions I witnessed him bleeping out this type of info AND admonishing the person who posted.

What I found particularly interesting was the use of shills in the room to praise and tout the system to the folks who were in for free trial. This is a variation of the three card monte scam in which the people winning money right and left (in this case alleged "members" who expound the virtues of this system ad nauseum) lure the unsuspecting visitors to get on board. Blade himself is the biggest showman when he makes the right call on a trade, making it seem that the magic secret of interpreting price action through this so-called proprietary system is the answer to your dreams. And indeed, the website has all the bait with pictures of folks living their fantasy lives on some tropical island with a Ferrari in the driveway.

In the two weeks I spent in the room, I calculated a win rate of approximately 59% as defined by a trade making one point before hitting a 1.25 stop. No great shakes. Blade claims the system is "robust" in that it gives many signals during the trading session. (I witnessed 10 calls in one day.) When a trade gets stopped before profit Blade has a litany of excuses that are too long to mention in this thread; suffice it to say as any true conman, he knows how to put a spin on the negatives as if it really wasn't all that bad. For example, the market is "acting violently" and the price action, therefore, can't be properly discerned. Blame it on anything but the system. After a couple of quick stopouts in a row, he takes a break as moderator and the room sits in silence.

Although I'm not privy to his secret system, my observations tell me he uses a short term candlestick chart (10 or 15 minute) calling out buys at obvious support and sells at resistance. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of technical analysis and chart reading could easily make the same calls. I also believe he uses a modified pivot point for his early morning calls which I did find funny. (f X price is broken, expect to go to Y and if that is broken, the Z and vice versa for the upside).

The free trial is worth the price of admission for entertainment, but not much else.



A solution to the problem (and in my view its a serious one)of selling dreams (education) and performance (real live trades) exists without having to be a CTA. Tsunami could easily trade in real time for its own account through the same chat room that it now makes calls "for educational or entertainment purposes." Then, they could post those results daily by showing a copy of their account statement. That might be a real eye opener for prospective purchasers but not good for their business.

But all of this misses the point of what they are doing in reality. Namely, selling the dream of financial wealth and independence through the purchase of their trading methodology to trade the ES a market in which over 90% of retail traders lose money.
quote:
Originally posted by ahk

A solution to the problem (and in my view its a serious one)of selling dreams (education) and performance (real live trades) exists without having to be a CTA. Tsunami could easily trade in real time for its own account through the same chat room that it now makes calls "for educational or entertainment purposes." Then, they could post those results daily by showing a copy of their account statement. That might be a real eye opener for prospective purchasers but not good for their business.

But all of this misses the point of what they are doing in reality. Namely, selling the dream of financial wealth and independence through the purchase of their trading methodology to trade the ES a market in which over 90% of retail traders lose money.



Very true.... selling the dream....

I agree completely about disclosure by all services: CTA and "educational"... If a business is being paid they need to disclose real-time performance statistics. The NFA could help by providing standardized performance disclosure guidelines to the industry.

When you think about it a while, what the majority (not all) of these services are doing is enabling an existing belief, it's really about ego satisfaction... the ego needs to be right (at all costs). If you believe you will succeed (and what newbie does'nt"), and you believe a solution exists (ie. the system you need to be successful is out there, you just need to find it), and your also believe no one in their right mind will give away the really good systems.... then your well along your way (preconditioned) to buying into the sales pitch.

It's the disclosure that's the bucket cold water in the face waking you up to the reality of what is being sold.... in this case false hope. Unfortunately, in most cases the reality set's in after the fact, ie. after your trading account has been cut in half or worse by the system.
quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini

The NFA could help by providing standardized performance disclosure guidelines to the industry.

That is a good idea. A lot of industries now have that. Used automobiles for example. They are not as risky to buy anymore. The banks and insurance companies now have to follow much stricter guidelines than they did 10 years ago.
It's probably just a matter of time before more regulation and disclosure requirements are brought into this industry because it is very easy to mislead people.

A lot of these sites are saying the equivalent of "come to Vegas but leave with a "guaranteed" 80% more than you arrived with."
I am one of the nearly 80 people who couldn't wait to send $6k to this guy.

Since he does not allow us to communicate with other members, this is the only way I have to possibly interact.

So, to you other Tsunami Wave Riders, are any of you successful using Blade's system? I hear people in the room making money some days, but my impression is that those are all using something they already knew, along with Tsunami. Blade says we should "throw all of that stuff away". We all know that the star of the room, Sue, uses nothing but his morning call levels. Some guy named Gamini says he uses only Tsunami system and makes money, BUT, he trades premarket, (which Blade says is not possible, and when I saw him try, he always lost), and he does NOT use the targets Blade says we should use.

I saw all the "unsolicited" testamonials on the website, and once a member, find that he solicits testamonials every time someone has a winning day. I also find out that he pays his members to bring others in. What is up with that?

He does a great job every morning of showing us where we "shoulda, coulda, woulda" entered trades. But if he is worth the half million $ that he has taken in so far, shouldn't he be able to trade his system live??? He is touting his "new software" this week from Trademaven, that is going "be the answer to making money consistently". Why does he need new software? I assumed when I paid him $6k a couple of months ago that he had a working system. How could he possibly know what the new software results will be without trading it real time for at least 6 months?

Also, is it just me that notices after a bad day or two of trading, he is wanting us to watch additional time frames, change our stops, change our money management, etc etc? What is with all these changes? He told us during trial week that this system "will work forever, in any market, because it is just how the market works". Did he just "assume" it would work forever, or had he actually traded it for more than a few days?

It is freakin unbelievable that after he makes a string of bad calls, he has Johng takeover. What is up with that? Johng only learned his system a few weeks ago. How could Johng possibly make better calls than the guy who invented the system and we all assumed was making money with it? Could it possibly be that Blade NEVER MADE money with this system till he started charging us $6k to teach it to us?

Obviously I am frustrated. When I signed up, Blade said the system was completely objective, now he states in the trial that it is 75% objective. He claims on the website that if you need more than a one point stop, then you need a new system, but the first change he made in the sytem is 1.25 stops. Why did he have to change the stops? Did the market change after all the "years" he took perfecting his "successful" system. I think not.

I hope to hear from some other Tsunami members, so I can figure out if I am just too stupid to trade, or if there are others like me.
redsioux: It definitely sounds like he's making his money from selling his system/services to a bunch of traders rather than making money from trading.
80 x $6,000 = $480,000
(as you pointed out, half a mil)

You prompted me to post this: Due Diligence

Where does the trading room operate that you are prevented from communicating with other members? Are you on PalTalk? or HotComm?
redsoiux - you have my sympathies and condolences for your painful experience with this particular trading service.

Here are a couple of observations/comments....

When the system developer starts improvising the method on the fly, that is a very bad sign.

The hard fact is, 1 point stops in the ES are very tight, forcing you to be pretty much perfect in your entry location and timing. Tough to do consistently.

What kind of profit targets is the system using off this 1 point stop ? Also, how many trades a day is the system averaging ?

If the system/service you paid $6,500 for was consistently profitable for you, making money day in and day out, then much of what you mentioned as problems would probably be ignored as minor background noise. But when the system/service is not meeting your initial expectations, which I am sure are reasonable on your part, then these issues become magnified because your trying to figure out what is going on and why.

Hopefully others who used this service in the past or present can add their experiences to this discussion.


Where does the trading room operate that you are prevented from communicating with other members? Are you on PalTalk? or HotComm?


Hotcomm.

Thanks for the post.
quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini

redsoiux - you have my sympathies and condolences for your painful experience with this particular trading service.

Here are a couple of observations/comments....

When the system developer starts improvising the method on the fly, that is a very bad sign.

The hard fact is, 1 point stops in the ES are very tight, forcing you to be pretty much perfect in your entry location and timing. Tough to do consistently.

What kind of profit targets is the system using off this 1 point stop ? Also, how many trades a day is the system averaging ?

If you are a 1 lot trader, he currently says hold for 2 points (that has changed several times since I have been in room). If you are a 2 lot trader, take 1 contract off at +1 point, the second off at +2 points. You leave your stop at -1 till you are out of trade. Number of trades vary. If he is having a good day, maybe 10, if not, maybe 4 or 5. Today he called 3 winners, 3 losers, but did not follow his money mgmt on one of the winners so he was about b/e with commissions. He left at 1:00 and turned it over to johng, who has not called a trade in an hour and a half.

If the system/service you paid $6,500 for was consistently profitable for you, making money day in and day out, then much of what you mentioned as problems would probably be ignored as minor background noise. But when the system/service is not meeting your initial expectations, which I am sure are reasonable on your part, then these issues become magnified because your trying to figure out what is going on and why.

Hopefully others who used this service in the past or present can add their experiences to this discussion.


The last time that I used HotComm (about a year ago) it was possible to click on a person's name in the room and Private Message (PM) that person.

Has the list of other people in the room been hidden or disabled or this feature of PM been disabled to prevent you from communicating with other people in the room?
Is blade's name John by the way? From what i ve seen, his latest scam is TsuBot, which he claims has an extremely high win rate in all markets. Watching it trade live, it's obvious that reality is much different. Interesting that he only takes into account the first profit target which is no more than eg 3 ES ticks or 5 GBP/USD pips (which is really 2 after spread which he totally ignores, but that should be expected as he has never placed a real trade himself). The corresponding stop loss is several times larger, a sure recipe for disaster. Avoid them at ALL costs no matter how tempted you feel to waste 6-7k