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Tsunami Trading Educators


http://www.tsunami-trade.com/

Here comes another system--which costs a whopping $6500--that claims to use no indicators whatsoever, only proprietary charts, to day trade the ES. I swear these sites are multiplying faster than roaches in an old soup can. What is so special about trading on price action? It's been done ever since markets existed but lately has become so new and vogue.

I've taken the free trial a couple of times and I'm not impressed. It obviously is targeting the novice trader who has spent a lot of time and money on other trading tools and still is losing money. Who else but the desperate and/or naive would wire $6500 to someone's bank account who, like most others in this con game business, won't even disclose their name, let alone a phone number. In addition to sending your money in a non-recourse fashion, new members are required to sign an unbelievably one sided disclaimer http://www.tsunami-trade.com/disclaimer.html that doesn't even tell you where this company is located. In addition, a search under "who is" reveals an anonymous front hosting company (Tucows).

In fact, the guy who runs this shop (Blade) is so paranoid and secretive that he doesn't even let other members communicate amongst themselves away from the room. He totally forbids any sharing of emails, IM, or Skype and is lightening quick to erase any such posts. On several occasions I witnessed him bleeping out this type of info AND admonishing the person who posted.

What I found particularly interesting was the use of shills in the room to praise and tout the system to the folks who were in for free trial. This is a variation of the three card monte scam in which the people winning money right and left (in this case alleged "members" who expound the virtues of this system ad nauseum) lure the unsuspecting visitors to get on board. Blade himself is the biggest showman when he makes the right call on a trade, making it seem that the magic secret of interpreting price action through this so-called proprietary system is the answer to your dreams. And indeed, the website has all the bait with pictures of folks living their fantasy lives on some tropical island with a Ferrari in the driveway.

In the two weeks I spent in the room, I calculated a win rate of approximately 59% as defined by a trade making one point before hitting a 1.25 stop. No great shakes. Blade claims the system is "robust" in that it gives many signals during the trading session. (I witnessed 10 calls in one day.) When a trade gets stopped before profit Blade has a litany of excuses that are too long to mention in this thread; suffice it to say as any true conman, he knows how to put a spin on the negatives as if it really wasn't all that bad. For example, the market is "acting violently" and the price action, therefore, can't be properly discerned. Blame it on anything but the system. After a couple of quick stopouts in a row, he takes a break as moderator and the room sits in silence.

Although I'm not privy to his secret system, my observations tell me he uses a short term candlestick chart (10 or 15 minute) calling out buys at obvious support and sells at resistance. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of technical analysis and chart reading could easily make the same calls. I also believe he uses a modified pivot point for his early morning calls which I did find funny. (f X price is broken, expect to go to Y and if that is broken, the Z and vice versa for the upside).

The free trial is worth the price of admission for entertainment, but not much else.



Good post felix. I think you sum up what a lot of people feel and you did it with class.
I second these toughts and sure wish I could be so eloquent......great Felix
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

Good post felix. I think you sum up what a lot of people feel and you did it with class.


Max,

I'm not aware of any shortcuts to trading successfully. However I think your basic premise of looking for an experienced trader to learn from is a wise one, but using this forum as way to filter them out isn't. Here's why: Most of the people that attempt trading fail (approx 90%) of the 10% remaining 7 or 8 percent can make a living at it while only 2 or 3 percent enjoy extraordinary results. Which percentage of people do you think occupy these rooms?

95% of trading is psychological. How you learn to deal with the emotions of fear and greed will ultimately determine your success. Since Psychology plays such a vital role, why is it that you have not seen it mentioned before in this thread?

You need to start somewhere, find a program that interests you and make all you can of it. As I have stated before there is something to be learned from each of them.

Best of luck and happy Holidays

quote:
Originally posted by myptofvu

I'm not aware of any shortcuts to trading successfully. However I think your basic premise of looking for an experienced trader to learn from is a wise one, but using this forum as way to filter them out isn't. Here's why: Most of the people that attempt trading fail (approx 90%) of the 10% remaining 7 or 8 percent can make a living at it while only 2 or 3 percent enjoy extraordinary results. Which percentage of people do you think occupy these rooms?

If the trading rooms/forums are representative of successful traders then by implication 1 out of every 10 traders on this forum are successful - assuming those figures are correct. Do you think that also implies that 1 out of every 10 systems that are on sale are successful?
quote:
95% of trading is psychological.

Where did you get that figure from?
quote:
How you learn to deal with the emotions of fear and greed will ultimately determine your success.

Not necessarily. If you use a black box system and approach you eliminate all psychology. I know a private trader who pays someone to trade his system for him so there is zero psychology involved. I have worked for hedge funds who develop a system, sell it to an investor and then have their traders trade it. The traders have zero discretion and no psychology is involved.

What I have noticed is that psychology is often used as an excuse for systems that are not working or to sell courses that correct the psychology "problem" that traders have.

Notice that I said "often". I do believe that some traders will have certain psychological issues that need to be addressed. Not all though, and I'm not sure where the 95% comes from?
quote:
Since Psychology plays such a vital role, why is it that you have not seen it mentioned before in this thread?

Because Blade has allegedly (I am quoting from memory so may be slightly off here) said that the system is objective with black and white entries/exits. i.e. There is not a psychological (discretionary) element to this system.

There is also a dedicated Psychology Forum where these aspects might have been mentioned.
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

quote:
Since Psychology plays such a vital role, why is it that you have not seen it mentioned before in this thread?

Because Blade has allegedly (I am quoting from memory so may be slightly off here) said that the system is objective with black and white entries/exits. i.e. There is not a psychological (discretionary) element to this system.




Day trading you are pretty close to what Blade has said. When he first started his trials, we were told it was "completely objective, everyone would see the same entry at the exact same price". Later, he changed his claim to "75% objective". He still claims that EVERYONE will be able to see the trades exactly the same.

He made a big deal about how he had been in all the other rooms, been to all the seminars, bought all the software, taken all the other courses, even been to Chicago to learn from floor traders. He said he was NOT successful after spending money on all of these. When he questioned the purveyors of these courses and systems, he said he was always told it was his fault, and his failure to take the trades properly. Blade said his course was different, and if you paid him $6.5k he would not try to place the blame back on you when you didn't get the same results as he did. Again, he said, after a weekend course you would "have the keys to the kingdom".

Blade promsised that even after he gave you the keys, you would have access to the room for "as long as he decided to keep it open". That would be great if he were a successful trader. But the way he runs it now it is really of not much help.

He keeps trying to incorporate improvements from his members to make his system work. This week alone he made 3 signficant changes to the strategy, all with the same dismal results. That doesn't even include the different time frames he keeps experimenting with.

The truth is everyone CAN see the entrys according to the system as he teaches it if you want to trade "mechanically" as he says. But when the mechanical system does not work, you are supposed to apply all these abstract filters. That is why "in retrospect" every morning he can show that the system "would have worked great" if you had "used the whole system", in other words, applying the abstract filters. Big problem though, is you can only see these in retrospect.

I think that is why he can't trade it live. It has nothing to do with psychology. He just has a lousy system.

Please, if anyone out there is considering joining Tsunami, ask Trademaven to provide proof that Blade has ever successfully traded his system for 20 consecutive days. On his website, Blade says that you will be required to sim trade for that long profitably before going live. So surely they would not have endorsed his program so enthusiasticly without having documentation that he could do what he requires of his students. Their own website says they "have rigorously screened" these educators. DO NOT TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT, ASK FOR PROOF, because I have not seen him do it since I have been in the room.
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

quote:
Originally posted by myptofvu

I'm not aware of any shortcuts to trading successfully. However I think your basic premise of looking for an experienced trader to learn from is a wise one, but using this forum as way to filter them out isn't. Here's why: Most of the people that attempt trading fail (approx 90%) of the 10% remaining 7 or 8 percent can make a living at it while only 2 or 3 percent enjoy extraordinary results. Which percentage of people do you think occupy these rooms?

If the trading rooms/forums are representative of successful traders then by implication 1 out of every 10 traders on this forum are successful - assuming those figures are correct. Do you think that also implies that 1 out of every 10 systems that are on sale are successful?
quote:
95% of trading is psychological.

Where did you get that figure from?
quote:
How you learn to deal with the emotions of fear and greed will ultimately determine your success.

Not necessarily. If you use a black box system and approach you eliminate all psychology. I know a private trader who pays someone to trade his system for him so there is zero psychology involved. I have worked for hedge funds who develop a system, sell it to an investor and then have their traders trade it. The traders have zero discretion and no psychology is involved.

What I have noticed is that psychology is often used as an excuse for systems that are not working or to sell courses that correct the psychology "problem" that traders have.

Notice that I said "often". I do believe that some traders will have certain psychological issues that need to be addressed. Not all though, and I'm not sure where the 95% comes from?
quote:
Since Psychology plays such a vital role, why is it that you have not seen it mentioned before in this thread?

Because Blade has allegedly (I am quoting from memory so may be slightly off here) said that the system is objective with black and white entries/exits. i.e. There is not a psychological (discretionary) element to this system.

There is also a dedicated Psychology Forum where these aspects might have been mentioned.



Day Trader

Give me a clue as to how to respond to this. How do I break up the quotes as you did so that I may address them one by one?
bruce i am well read on the subject of trading but have never traded with real money. so that makes me a newbie and a wannabee for that matter.

i will post the results from my trials at falcon and zoo each day as called in real time by the moderator only in the format pt suggested. were talking about a week for each service. ive also decided that if i dont receive trading statements of the moderator or a member of his room directly from their broker i take a pass. but i will only request these statements if im serious about buying.

i will also take a powder from this topic and leave it to the stakeholders.

max

quote:
Originally posted by myptofvu

Give me a clue as to how to respond to this. How do I break up the quotes as you did so that I may address them one by one?

Whatever you're most comfortable with. You can reply to each one as a seperate reply or if you want to quote each in one reply then break them up with [quote]...[/quote] tags. Replace the elipses with what I said.
Day Trader,

quote:
If the trading rooms/forums are representative of successful traders then by implication 1 out of every 10 traders on this forum are successful - assuming those figures are correct. Do you think that also implies that 1 out of every 10 systems that are on sale are successful?


I did not mean to imply that 1 out of 10 traders in this forum are successful. I meant to imply that the 9 out of 10 who aren't, are in this forum.

quote:myptofvu
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95% of trading is psychological.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Trader
quote:
Where did you get that figure from?


Numerous sources including books, articles and other resources.

quote:myptofvu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you learn to deal with the emotions of fear and greed will ultimately determine your success.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


quote:
Not necessarily. If you use a black box system and approach you eliminate all psychology. I know a private trader who pays someone to trade his system for him so there is zero psychology involved. I have worked for hedge funds who develop a system, sell it to an investor and then have their traders trade it. The traders have zero discretion and no psychology is involved.


Which Hedge Funds have you worked for? Amaranth?..MotherRock?...Just kidding...I think Redsioux must be rubbing off on me.

Our problem lies in our definitions. If someone else does the trading for you I don't classify them as a Trader, nor do I if they utilize a Blackbox.

To address one of your first questions, no I don't think that 1 out of 10 of these programs are successful. I think that 10 out of 10 of them would be in the proper hands. To think otherwise would be arrogant.





Well now, it seems that mypt is more jaded than the rest of us put together. Apparently we're all losers here. Well myptofvu, I have admitted to it, as has elite. But day & pt have both weighed in on the positive side. As neither are trying to sell me anything, I do not doubt their claims. May I inquire as to the basis for your blanket judgment?

Before you answer, I must admit that I myself sometimes ask - why would a successful trader hang out in a room like this? What would be to gain? But then I think of my own circumstance. By most standards, I am somewhat successful in business. I make good money. I don't need to trade, and I'm not good at it. My lengthy track record makes it quite obvious that I'm not here for the money. I do it because I enjoy it.

Could it be that some of the contributors to this forum actually love what they do, AND like to mingle with others who share similar interests, AND like to share their knowledge, believing that they will enrich their own lives and sharpen their skills as they continue to learn from others?

That's the tack I'm going with. It makes sense to me because I would do the same. So I'm curious. What makes you say that this forum is made up of the bottom 90%? Just a hunch, or do you know something I don't know?
Is blade's name John by the way? From what i ve seen, his latest scam is TsuBot, which he claims has an extremely high win rate in all markets. Watching it trade live, it's obvious that reality is much different. Interesting that he only takes into account the first profit target which is no more than eg 3 ES ticks or 5 GBP/USD pips (which is really 2 after spread which he totally ignores, but that should be expected as he has never placed a real trade himself). The corresponding stop loss is several times larger, a sure recipe for disaster. Avoid them at ALL costs no matter how tempted you feel to waste 6-7k