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ahk vs. BruceM Trading Challenge


This thread is under construction.


Stayed tuned folks.
quote:
Originally posted by version77

quote:
Originally posted by ahk

Fact 7: Opponent said he would "consider" the Challenge if I produced a statement for the single and only trade I posted. I agreed to post said trade if opponent agreed in advance to the Challenge and posted his statement for the trade he reported on same day. This was rejected by opponent.


The whole challenge could end very quickly if both parties would show
statements for the day they both say they had a winning trade.

This would show that both were truthful with their postings that day.

A 2-month trade-a-thon sounds a little bit over the top to me...


I'm open to suggestions for a shorter Term of the Challenge.
What about the idea of both of you sending me your statements about the trades that you took Aaron? I will standardize them so that they both show the same amount of info and upload them. Alternatively I could just verify both of them and post a message saying that I've seen them...
Well the statement was never "produced" nor was it sent to Guy and his song and dance has begun so I bid this thread farewell. Let my detractors suddenly emerge on this thread to bad-mouth me. I won't see it......It's a shame that Aaron couldn't come through with his statement...then we could have done the challenge but he didn't even give me the opportunity to "consider" it...

I will no longer entertain and waste my time with personal attacks on me or my trading expertise. I thank all of you who emailed me, telling me how foolish I was anyway...sometimes you need to be hit over the head a few times before it sinks in...I didn't realize how many lurkers there are out here...that is so cool. So this is a done deal.....

The Zoo and Blue Falcon will be given another opportunity to prove that they, as vendors, really trade. I will assume that Aaron will be prepared from his mentor who called the trades with statements for those trades....this will be a great marketing tool for the Zoo and Blue falcon and even though it is only one week of trading I still think some will find it impressive. I congratulate them now if they come through.

For me I'll still keep on top of the Zoo and Faclon in their threads but for the most part I'll "cutoff" the personal attacks on me quickly. There will be no more replies on this subject from me. I am confident yet humble in my abilities as a trader and have absolutely nothing to prove to anyone. So this trader will get back to his business of trading and the vendors can get back to what they do best.....

For those of you who stick around for some of the replies to this last post..you will be able to "read" what some vendors do best...We all know that Aaron could still provide Guy his statement if he actually had it but he will use my last post to avoid any proof...Now remember don't try to suck me back in Aaron, I won't be here but you can still prove yourself to the entire forum with that one simple statement.

I think my quote from the Blue Falcon thread dated October 1st , 2006 sums it up.....afterall, hasn't this happened to me? Here it is:

"My intent was to try and find out if you are the real deal and not just another vendor trying to re - aim the focus back onto the customer instead of the vendor."

Oh, they never change...

Bruce

quote:
Originally posted by ahk

quote:
Originally posted by version77

quote:
Originally posted by ahk

Fact 7: Opponent said he would "consider" the Challenge if I produced a statement for the single and only trade I posted. I agreed to post said trade if opponent agreed in advance to the Challenge and posted his statement for the trade he reported on same day. This was rejected by opponent.


The whole challenge could end very quickly if both parties would show
statements for the day they both say they had a winning trade.

This would show that both were truthful with their postings that day.

A 2-month trade-a-thon sounds a little bit over the top to me...


I'm open to suggestions for a shorter Term of the Challenge.

Let me make sure that this is here for all to see from my previous post ...so all are clear...

"1) Aaron must not come back with anything else but a statement ..no song and dance otherwise this ends here..I've put up with enough crap from this vendor"

Ok..now I'm done...lol

Bruce
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

What about the idea of both of you sending me your statements about the trades that you took Aaron? I will standardize them so that they both show the same amount of info and upload them. Alternatively I could just verify both of them and post a message saying that I've seen them...


dt,

The idea is unacceptable because it doesn't fulfill my objective to demonstrate that the Zoo is not a scam and a fraud as my opponent has incessantly claimed in this forum. (He can say anything he wants about me personally; at this point I don't care.) Moreover, I have made enough concessions on this without getting anything in return. This could have been settled scores of posts ago had he produced any evidence whatsoever to support his allegations about the Zoo. Civil adults should know they can’t make outrageous false statements to defame a business’ reputation and walk away scott- free.

This isn't about me, it's about the Zoo. The Challenge was a vehicle for my opponent to give some credence to his libelous remarks in lieu of submitting any facts, which he heretofore has not been, willing to do. He elected not to accept it despite the generous terms and cave-ins on my part..

I said before, in a court of law his case would be thrown out by the judge for lack of evidence (make that no evidence). It would never get to a jury. I haven't seen anything since then to change my belief. If and when I do, I’ll certainly reconsider my position. After all, I am a reasonable man. Perhaps you can steer me in the right direction if I’ve overlooked something in the forum. It’s possible that I missed his posts.

In the meantime, I’ll lay odds that my opponent will not be able to keep his promise and stay away from this thread to get the last word in edgewise. This is a very high probability bet based on his track record and back testing.

For those who have been observers of this soap opera, take a look at the daily performance numbers this week generously supplied by max and decide for yourselves if this looks like a scam or successful trading and feel free to contact me if I can answer any questions about the Zoo.
Aaron, did you take those trades that you said that you did or were they simulated/hypothetical trades?

The reason that I ask this is to protect you. This does not apply to Bruce because he has no financial gain from the trades that he claims to have made. If a trader were to see those trades that you posted and believed that you really did take them and that was part of his reason for buying into the Trading Zoo and you did not really take them then you may get into trouble with the CFTC.

The general theme behind the CFTC rulings is: "Many of the respondents falsely claimed that performance results were based on real trading, when, in fact, the results were based on hypothetical trading."

Here are a few examples of the CFTC rulings:

Swannell Sold His Elliott Wave Analyzer Software
...That consent order required Swannell to refrain from presenting hypothetical trading results without warning of the inherent limitations of hypothetical trading, and to clearly identify when trading results were based wholly or partially on simulated or hypothetical trading...

Gramalegui Made False Claims that his Mother Profitably Traded with his System
...failing to disclose that the so-called trading results presented in his advertisements were based on hypothetical, rather than actual, trading...

CFTC Finds that Ten Internet Promoters of Trading Systems and Advisory Services Engaged in Fraud
...Many of the respondents falsely claimed that performance results were based on real trading, when, in fact, the results were based on hypothetical trading...

So what I am saying is that you are in a different position to Bruce because of the beneficial financial nature that you have with posting trades and the claims that you make about them.

If you took the trades as stated then there is nothing to worry about. If not then let me know and I will edit those posts and mark them as hypothetical.
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

Aaron, did you take those trades that you said that you did or were they simulated/hypothetical trades?

The reason that I ask this is to protect you. This does not apply to Bruce because he has no financial gain from the trades that he claims to have made. If a trader were to see those trades that you posted and believed that you really did take them and that was part of his reason for buying into the Trading Zoo and you did not really take them then you may get into trouble with the CFTC.

The general theme behind the CFTC rulings is: "Many of the respondents falsely claimed that performance results were based on real trading, when, in fact, the results were based on hypothetical trading."

Here are a few examples of the CFTC rulings:

Swannell Sold His Elliott Wave Analyzer Software
...That consent order required Swannell to refrain from presenting hypothetical trading results without warning of the inherent limitations of hypothetical trading, and to clearly identify when trading results were based wholly or partially on simulated or hypothetical trading...

Gramalegui Made False Claims that his Mother Profitably Traded with his System
...failing to disclose that the so-called trading results presented in his advertisements were based on hypothetical, rather than actual, trading...

CFTC Finds that Ten Internet Promoters of Trading Systems and Advisory Services Engaged in Fraud
...Many of the respondents falsely claimed that performance results were based on real trading, when, in fact, the results were based on hypothetical trading...

So what I am saying is that you are in a different position to Bruce because of the beneficial financial nature that you have with posting trades and the claims that you make about them.

If you took the trades as stated then there is nothing to worry about. If not then let me know and I will edit those posts and mark them as hypothetical.


dt,

I sincerely appreciate you looking out for my back, but I think your focus is misdirected. That is to say, I believe you should think about the best interests of your other readers who not experienced and perhaps prone to impulsive urges.

Frankly, I think you're insulting their collective and individual intelligence. I would find it almost impossible to believe that anyone would spend $5000 to join an educational trading advisory based on one trade of a single man posted on this forum regardless if that trade is real or hypothetical. The thought is ludicrous beyond belief. But you know your clientele better than I do and if there is any chance of anyone who reads this forum foolish enough to think about doing that, then I believe it makes sense to warn them here and now, for the record, not to. I continue to recommend all people interested in The Trading Zoo to take advantage of a free one week trial. That should be part of each persons due diligence analysis. The disclaimer on the Website, which must be accepted by the visitor before taking that trial is as follows:

"By accessing The TradingZoo chat room, you have read, understood and agree to be bound by the terms of the following disclaimer:

Day trading is considered a high-risk speculative trading strategy. Only risk capital should be used and the rigid observation of a system for loss control is strongly recommended. Additionally, the use of margin may dramatically increase the risks associated with trading. Tradingzoo.com makes no claims whatsoever regarding past or future performance and past results are no indication of future performance. Any trade alert is for educational purposes only.

Be aware that it is a fact that well over 90% of all who try active trading, fail! Some say actual statistics indicate a failure rate as high as 97%. Day Trading is not suitable for everyone. You trade at your own risk. Day Trading involves considerable risk and could result in significant losses. The users of the information contained on this site do so under their own due diligence when it comes to making trading decisions.

Stock, Futures, and Options Trading is high risk and you can lose a great deal of money, maybe all, in the process. You agree and understand the risks involved and have made your own assessment of your personal risk tolerances. You agree to not hold Tradingzoo.com and/or anyone affiliated with this site liable for any losses that may result from the information provided. By submitting your membership form, you agree and fully understand that this site and its contents are not meant and were not developed to be viewed as trading advice or recommendations but for educational purposes only. You agree by viewing the contents of this site that you do so at your own discretion and that you will not hold accountable anyone affiliated with this site or Tradingzoo.com for any losses or interpretations you may have. TradingZoo.com reserve the right to deny service to anyone."


I submit that disclaimer apply to everything one reads on this forum posted by me with respect to The Trading Zoo.

Thanks again dt and have a terrific trading week.
ahk: You have to remember that the trading web sites that are cited by the CFTC had disclaimers just like this one but they still prosecuted the owners and affiliates for claiming that the hypothetical trades were real trades. From my limited understanding of the law that puts you in the firing line to be prosecuted by the CFTC because you are claiming that those trades that you took at the beginning of the year were real trades. I don't know if they were real trades or not, but in the event that someone joins the Zoo and is subsequently unhappy with it they could come after you as well as setting the CFTC on to you. So long as you took the trade then that's okay.

As I've mentioned before I am not a lawyer so it is best to get advice from a lawyer if you did not take those trades. If you did take those trades then you have nothing to worry about. I'd hate to see you turn up as a case on the CFTC web site in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

ahk: You have to remember that the trading web sites that are cited by the CFTC had disclaimers just like this one but they still prosecuted the owners and affiliates for claiming that the hypothetical trades were real trades. From my limited understanding of the law that puts you in the firing line to be prosecuted by the CFTC because you are claiming that those trades that you took at the beginning of the year were real trades. I don't know if they were real trades or not, but in the event that someone joins the Zoo and is subsequently unhappy with it they could come after you as well as setting the CFTC on to you. So long as you took the trade then that's okay.

As I've mentioned before I am not a lawyer so it is best to get advice from a lawyer if you did not take those trades. If you did take those trades then you have nothing to worry about. I'd hate to see you turn up as a case on the CFTC web site in the future.


Thanks dt,

Im not breaking any laws.


How do you know that you aren't breaking any laws?
quote:
Originally posted by day trading

How do you know that you aren't breaking any laws?


Suffice it to say I know. Let's leave it at that. Thanks again.