zoo/ falcon trial report
to make it easy on the reader i will use this thread to review my experience, observations and conclusions from spending a week in both rooms as a trial member.
remember these are my opinions not statements of facts. i am making no representations or warranties as to the accuracy of these opinions nor am i encouraging anyone to join these services. folks who are interested in joining these services should conduct their own due diligence and form their own opinions. thank you.
max
remember these are my opinions not statements of facts. i am making no representations or warranties as to the accuracy of these opinions nor am i encouraging anyone to join these services. folks who are interested in joining these services should conduct their own due diligence and form their own opinions. thank you.
max
falcon day traders
1. room atmosphere—recognizing this was a trial it should come as no surprise that people were cordial and upbeat. the room seemed relaxed and comfortable. existing members were actively touting the virtues of the guru in an effort to persuade the visitors to join. the guru was heavily pushing the system on a daily basis spending as much time marketing as discussing trading and his methods. after 3 days i found this hard sell irritating and reached for the mute button. there was no projection of a desktop, just the room dialogue.
2. nature of trading calls—calls were given ahead of time. guru made more unofficial calls than official. official calls were clear for enty/exit/stop. unofficial calls were ambiguous. Guru took credit for unofficial calls despite lack of clarity.
3. underlying method premise—difficult to determine. guru made remarks about “value area,” elliot wave, tops/bottoms and trendlines. said the methods took in many variables but not macd, stochastics, rsi etc. guru said the system was “EDGE” based (Eliminating Direction Given Exactly)
4. typical holding period—less than 30 minutes.
5. peformance—see pt’s summary in falcon day traders thread.
6. special software/broker/platform--none other than paltalk.
7. education/training—extensive using guru’s desktop and some written material, format not disclosed. contract specifies 3 months of followup although guru said it was unlimited.
8. degree of difficulty—based on the many things mentioned in number 3. the methods are complex. guru said it was intensive and a lot of work. once learned after much practice, signals would be easy recognize. no reference to level of experience needed.
9. impression of guru—energetic and honest. a tad egotistical. very salesy.
10. price--$6000. guru said price was going up after this trial by an undetermined amount.
11. summary—performance was solid. system uses a 2-2.5 point stop so the risk/reward is fair. requires a serious effort which is fine. not inexpensive but competitive to similar offerings.
12. conclusion--worth serious consideration
1. room atmosphere—recognizing this was a trial it should come as no surprise that people were cordial and upbeat. the room seemed relaxed and comfortable. existing members were actively touting the virtues of the guru in an effort to persuade the visitors to join. the guru was heavily pushing the system on a daily basis spending as much time marketing as discussing trading and his methods. after 3 days i found this hard sell irritating and reached for the mute button. there was no projection of a desktop, just the room dialogue.
2. nature of trading calls—calls were given ahead of time. guru made more unofficial calls than official. official calls were clear for enty/exit/stop. unofficial calls were ambiguous. Guru took credit for unofficial calls despite lack of clarity.
3. underlying method premise—difficult to determine. guru made remarks about “value area,” elliot wave, tops/bottoms and trendlines. said the methods took in many variables but not macd, stochastics, rsi etc. guru said the system was “EDGE” based (Eliminating Direction Given Exactly)
4. typical holding period—less than 30 minutes.
5. peformance—see pt’s summary in falcon day traders thread.
6. special software/broker/platform--none other than paltalk.
7. education/training—extensive using guru’s desktop and some written material, format not disclosed. contract specifies 3 months of followup although guru said it was unlimited.
8. degree of difficulty—based on the many things mentioned in number 3. the methods are complex. guru said it was intensive and a lot of work. once learned after much practice, signals would be easy recognize. no reference to level of experience needed.
9. impression of guru—energetic and honest. a tad egotistical. very salesy.
10. price--$6000. guru said price was going up after this trial by an undetermined amount.
11. summary—performance was solid. system uses a 2-2.5 point stop so the risk/reward is fair. requires a serious effort which is fine. not inexpensive but competitive to similar offerings.
12. conclusion--worth serious consideration
the trading zoo
1. room atmosphere—warm, friendly and professional. members and visitors sign in with real names instead of handles giving the feeling that real people are there. existing members were not aggressively touting the virtues of the guru in an effort to persuade the visitors to join. the guru spent his time speaking about trading and did not push try to sell the visitors at all on joining. at the end of the week i was waiting for the big close to buy but it never came. in fact i left the room wondering how a visitor should follow up to join. there was a projection of a desktop with a proprietary indicator called roach and a customized dom. guru played excerpts from the movies rounders and borat between trades for levity and relaxation.
2. nature of trading calls—calls were given ahead of time. guru made an equal number of unofficial calls. official calls were clear for entry/exit/stop. unofficial calls were also clear. guru pointed out the results off the unofficial calls most of which were winners.
3. underlying method premise—difficult to determine. guru called out trades with bizarre names like “zoodrink, zoonet, zoomap, turtle, piglet, lion, falcon and snake” making it impossible for visitors to decipher. i found it amusing but effective. methodology uses no indicators other than roach, a scalping tool that semed very reliable in identifying short term trends. guru repeated many times that “price action” was key to successful trading.
4. typical holding period—less than 30 minutes.
5. peformance—see pt’s summary in the trading zoo thread.
6. special software/broker/platform--none other than omnovia which seemed to have reliability issues. i got disconnected a few times and projection/voice went down from time to time. a bit annoying.
7. education/training—extensive using guru’s desktop. no other materials.
8. degree of difficulty—i have no idea. guru did not address it. one member was a nurse with no experience before she joined and now is the best trader according to other members. no reference to level of experience needed.
9. impression of guru—honest, relaxed, confident and funny.
10. price--$5000.
11. summary—performance was excellent. system uses a 3 tick-1.25 point stop so the risk reward is very good. probably requires dedication for success. reasonably priced compared to similar offerings. omnovia is a negative.
12. conclusion—highly recommended.
1. room atmosphere—warm, friendly and professional. members and visitors sign in with real names instead of handles giving the feeling that real people are there. existing members were not aggressively touting the virtues of the guru in an effort to persuade the visitors to join. the guru spent his time speaking about trading and did not push try to sell the visitors at all on joining. at the end of the week i was waiting for the big close to buy but it never came. in fact i left the room wondering how a visitor should follow up to join. there was a projection of a desktop with a proprietary indicator called roach and a customized dom. guru played excerpts from the movies rounders and borat between trades for levity and relaxation.
2. nature of trading calls—calls were given ahead of time. guru made an equal number of unofficial calls. official calls were clear for entry/exit/stop. unofficial calls were also clear. guru pointed out the results off the unofficial calls most of which were winners.
3. underlying method premise—difficult to determine. guru called out trades with bizarre names like “zoodrink, zoonet, zoomap, turtle, piglet, lion, falcon and snake” making it impossible for visitors to decipher. i found it amusing but effective. methodology uses no indicators other than roach, a scalping tool that semed very reliable in identifying short term trends. guru repeated many times that “price action” was key to successful trading.
4. typical holding period—less than 30 minutes.
5. peformance—see pt’s summary in the trading zoo thread.
6. special software/broker/platform--none other than omnovia which seemed to have reliability issues. i got disconnected a few times and projection/voice went down from time to time. a bit annoying.
7. education/training—extensive using guru’s desktop. no other materials.
8. degree of difficulty—i have no idea. guru did not address it. one member was a nurse with no experience before she joined and now is the best trader according to other members. no reference to level of experience needed.
9. impression of guru—honest, relaxed, confident and funny.
10. price--$5000.
11. summary—performance was excellent. system uses a 3 tick-1.25 point stop so the risk reward is very good. probably requires dedication for success. reasonably priced compared to similar offerings. omnovia is a negative.
12. conclusion—highly recommended.
quote:
Originally posted by max
correction:
5. peformance—see pt’s summary in the trading zoo thread.
sorry folks. im tired.
max
dt better yet can you please delete the last post and correct the original. im a bit anal about this. lol thanks
max
This is great reporting Max. A very thorough job. I concur with your comments about the Blue Falcon room for the 5 - 6 hours I made it in there this week. My friend who is a member has told me that there is very little documentation provided and that they actual use an Ensign chatroom when not doing trials. I was bothered by the "unofficial" calls too and didn't appreciate being made to feel at times like if I didn't join up I would never make it as a trader.
I also think your summary of the Zoo is a great piece of work. What bothered me when I took their trial was the fact that their website stated "What to expect from TradingZoo:
We are intraday position traders. We look at the market first thing in the morning and look to position ourselves long or short for the rest of the day or until the market tells us otherwise."
They also state the following: "Scalping is the fastest, surest way to lose money in the stock market."
So I wasn't expecting so many trades and the trades you followed seem to be more like scalping to me also. It didn't seem like any where held for a very big profit target on a per contract basis. I also didn't think I could ever reproduce some of their trades...especially those based off of the "Roach"...but let me be clear with this next statement...I most likely didnot spend as much time in their room as you did..nor was I as thorough in my analysis as I was trading at the same time.
When you say "highly recommend" and "worth serious consideration" in your number 12 bullets are you refering to the actual trial or are you suggesting people should consider signing up for the training from either of these vendors? Will you be getting a two week extension for your trial like Aaron did to further evaluate the Zoo or are you evaluating another vendor this week......? How will you know when you have found a vendor that you think will shorten your learning curve as previously stated ? Thanks for all this effort.
Bruce
I also think your summary of the Zoo is a great piece of work. What bothered me when I took their trial was the fact that their website stated "What to expect from TradingZoo:
We are intraday position traders. We look at the market first thing in the morning and look to position ourselves long or short for the rest of the day or until the market tells us otherwise."
They also state the following: "Scalping is the fastest, surest way to lose money in the stock market."
So I wasn't expecting so many trades and the trades you followed seem to be more like scalping to me also. It didn't seem like any where held for a very big profit target on a per contract basis. I also didn't think I could ever reproduce some of their trades...especially those based off of the "Roach"...but let me be clear with this next statement...I most likely didnot spend as much time in their room as you did..nor was I as thorough in my analysis as I was trading at the same time.
When you say "highly recommend" and "worth serious consideration" in your number 12 bullets are you refering to the actual trial or are you suggesting people should consider signing up for the training from either of these vendors? Will you be getting a two week extension for your trial like Aaron did to further evaluate the Zoo or are you evaluating another vendor this week......? How will you know when you have found a vendor that you think will shorten your learning curve as previously stated ? Thanks for all this effort.
Bruce
Dear max,
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to spend a week at The Trading Zoo. As a member, I appreciate your objectivity and honesty and I applaud your effort.
It's very refreshing and gratifying to have an unbiased third party like yourself give such a favorable review of The Trading Zoo. I hope you give serious consideration to becoming a member. We'd be honored to have you as a comrade.
With kindest regards, I am
Sincerely yours,
ahk
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to spend a week at The Trading Zoo. As a member, I appreciate your objectivity and honesty and I applaud your effort.
It's very refreshing and gratifying to have an unbiased third party like yourself give such a favorable review of The Trading Zoo. I hope you give serious consideration to becoming a member. We'd be honored to have you as a comrade.
With kindest regards, I am
Sincerely yours,
ahk
quote:
Originally posted by max
dt better yet can you please delete the last post and correct the original. i'm a bit anal about this. lol thanks
I corrected that post as requested and also linked the appropriate threads to point 5.
max: Many thanks for doing that. It was a fantastic effort and much appreciated by everyone. Very professionally and objectively done.
I think this deserves to be addressed in light of the fact that AHK has used this to promote the Zoo. I encourage people to read the entire trading Zoo and Blue Falcon threads.
AHK should disclose on this post that he is paid a referal fee for each new "member" he signs up
AHK has been unable to provide statements for any of the above trades nor his only posted trade and has not clarified whether they are real or hypothetical to this date
AHK has been a ZOO memeber for four months yet he needs to get referal fees and can't provide statements to even one trade...makes me wonder... my opinions are expressed here on these forums...
He has threatened me with legal action based on the following statement
"BruceM, do yourself a favor and consult an attorney.
There are laws in this country to protect those who are the victims against defamation, slander and libel. Court cases are decided every day enforcing those laws. Freedom of speech is not the issue here and you know it. You went on a malicious and wellthought out attack to tarnish and harm the Trading Zoo, its reputation and its business. You thought you could do this with impunity."
I encourage anyone to take trials to both of these rooms for yourself. Get as long a trial as possible and most important in my opinion is to get at least 6 months of trade statements....nothing less..and keep following along on the trading zoo thread and the blue Falcon thread to see if either can deliver the goods by providing statements or answers to questions left there. AHK will promptly get back to you for a free trial but doesn't answer the tough questions many have left for him....
I would have confronted the Blue Falcon traders/members/owners with all of the things I have said about vendors in any thread but none have emerged. So draw your own conclusions..
Bruce
AHK should disclose on this post that he is paid a referal fee for each new "member" he signs up
AHK has been unable to provide statements for any of the above trades nor his only posted trade and has not clarified whether they are real or hypothetical to this date
AHK has been a ZOO memeber for four months yet he needs to get referal fees and can't provide statements to even one trade...makes me wonder... my opinions are expressed here on these forums...
He has threatened me with legal action based on the following statement
"BruceM, do yourself a favor and consult an attorney.
There are laws in this country to protect those who are the victims against defamation, slander and libel. Court cases are decided every day enforcing those laws. Freedom of speech is not the issue here and you know it. You went on a malicious and wellthought out attack to tarnish and harm the Trading Zoo, its reputation and its business. You thought you could do this with impunity."
I encourage anyone to take trials to both of these rooms for yourself. Get as long a trial as possible and most important in my opinion is to get at least 6 months of trade statements....nothing less..and keep following along on the trading zoo thread and the blue Falcon thread to see if either can deliver the goods by providing statements or answers to questions left there. AHK will promptly get back to you for a free trial but doesn't answer the tough questions many have left for him....
I would have confronted the Blue Falcon traders/members/owners with all of the things I have said about vendors in any thread but none have emerged. So draw your own conclusions..
Bruce
quote:
Originally posted by ahk
Dear max,
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to spend a week at The Trading Zoo. As a member, I appreciate your objectivity and honesty and I applaud your effort.
It's very refreshing and gratifying to have an unbiased third party like yourself give such a favorable review of The Trading Zoo. I hope you give serious consideration to becoming a member. We'd be honored to have you as a comrade.
With kindest regards, I am
Sincerely yours,
ahk
This reminds me of a poker game where certain disinterested players want to see the others' hole cards before they ante into the hand.
This is classic political tactic to divert the readers away from the impartial review max did on the Zoo and Blue Falcon. He took his precious time and effort to bring real value to others as well as himself.
Don't let a cabal of malcontents who have no interests other than smearing the good names of these services sway you from the positives. Thank you.
This is classic political tactic to divert the readers away from the impartial review max did on the Zoo and Blue Falcon. He took his precious time and effort to bring real value to others as well as himself.
Don't let a cabal of malcontents who have no interests other than smearing the good names of these services sway you from the positives. Thank you.
bruce what the hell gives you the right to threadjack this. dont you have any respect for the good things people do for the benefit of everyone. take your petty vendetta against ahk somewhere else. i didn't do this for you to continue your silly games. is that clear?
thanks ahk. i really appreciate that. i was very impressed with your guru and the room and most likely will be following up with you folks.
max
max
I believe that the purpose of this thread is complete. The objective was to collect and compare the trading results from the free trials offered by the Trading Zoo and Falcon Day Traders.
If you want to discuss either of these trading systems further then please use the topics that have been dedicated to this: Trading Zoo and Falcon Day Traders.
If you want to run another comparison or results survey of either of these services or any other service then please start a new topic by clicking New Topic.
This topic/thread has now been locked.
If you want to discuss either of these trading systems further then please use the topics that have been dedicated to this: Trading Zoo and Falcon Day Traders.
If you want to run another comparison or results survey of either of these services or any other service then please start a new topic by clicking New Topic.
This topic/thread has now been locked.
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