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So this is going to sound negative...because thats what has happened to ALL of society[:(
] I have just had a total of 3 bad experiences with 3 different vendors. I won't name them here for fear of being sued by some scum sucking trial lawyer, but rest assured it has happened. The only words of wisdom I will give to any "newbie" is save your money and don't believe a damn thing "ANY" vendor has to say. If they had any great system do you think they would sell it to you. They make their money by selling it to you, and they keep finding new suckers all the time. This has become a world were everyone is a salesman and human nature being what it is, greedy!!!!, they are going to prey on your nature. My appologies to the owner of this site, because I know you are making money of the ads, but I don't think my comments will hurt anything. I do think you are actually proforming a good service and hope you are making money. By the way, I have owned my own company for over 40 yrs. and have been selling to the public for all that time , so I know the game. It's ugly to see how many damn LIARS that are out here
Sorry to hear about your experience Bill.

I was just reading between the lines of what you were saying about greed and vendors preying on that greed which is an interesting topic from both the trading side of things and the trading system vending side of things.

Extrapolating from what you said, the greedier a person is, the easier prey they are for a dishonest vendor. A linear relationship if you will. If you make the assumption that people are very greedy by nature then we as society provide a lot of prey for the dishonest vendors.

One of the solutions to curb this problem (of dishonest vendors) is to remove the demand for the product. They usually sell the dream that you can turn something like $10,000 into $1 million over about a 1 year period. If we can educate new traders that this is almost impossible then perhaps there will be less of a demand for these products. Hopefully this forum will provide a place where you will find this reality check.

The odds of turning $10,000 into $1 million in 1 year, I would guess, would be greater than the odds of winning the lottery. This is a guess as I've never worked out the actual odds but I'm pretty sure that I'm correct here. Assuming that my statement is correct, you would be better off buying 10,000 x $1 lottery tickets than buying a system that promised that sort of return.

Thanks for posting your experience Bill. I would be interested to know what performance claims the 3 systems made that you are talking about?
Day Trading, I'm glad to see your prompt reply. I really think this site does help the average retail trader, if nothing more then it gets he or she to at least "think" before acting. Not trying to brown nose it , just stating my opinion. Again I will not name the actual parties, but will relate the experiences. First of all I was directed to your site by one of the vendors. I was looking to find out why pivots would be different and your site came up. As far as the 1st incident, I was in one of their classes, and they had a new employee who was trying to explain a money management system where you could have a 25% success rate and still make 4000 a month!!!!! Even all the "newbies" saw through that one. I think he actually believed it!!!! I mean how can a company employ someone who would give out such info. Even though he said you shouldn't do this right know someone would give it a try and get CREAMED! 2nd, I went to try a 10 trial at another site and after the 10 day trial, they went and charged my credit card for a full month without my autherization!!!! Of course have sent e-mails and telephoned and NO damn reply. Of course I sent dispute to credit card company and it will be a cold day in HELL before they will get a dime!!!! This is a site that posts it's results on line for all to see except that the head guy will make trades and doesn't call them. Again I was too gullible. Lastly , while this is not costly it still emphasizes that as long as you are talking money with these bozos all is fine. Ask them something that you would like to know before buying and suddenly you don't get any reply. I was considering a site that gets a lot of mention here. When I e-mailed them in regards to purchase, I get a quick reply, when I e-mail them in regards to how something may or may not work with the charting servce I use the e-mail falls on deaf ears. Well anyway I sure hate being this nagative, but maybe this might help someone out there. I guess it goes without saying, "bulls" can money and "bears" can make money but "pigs" get slaughtered.

You don't sound like a novice and experienced traders don't get easily seduced by vendors selling the stairway to heaven, yet you got taken a few times. Can you explain why that happened and what you learned from your experiences?
Hey eminiologist,

Thanks for the reply. As you can see in each situation, there is a different theme. What I am trying to say is "buyer bewhere". In this day of computers and instant communications there has developed a new "sex" appeal. You see now all one has to do is "Google" any subject in the world and boom you can get anything, along with a million hucksters who advertise on Google and have learned how to take your money. And of course its so easy to give them a credit card and look at the Billions generated. You know this has become a service economy and it's my opinion it has also brought out the worst in alot of folks. I will also tell you that the vendor with credit card incident gave me a call and is going to credit my account.

Look folks, we all know that trading the futures markets is extremely risky. Only 10% can make money. I will say that vendor does admit they make their money off the "newbies". So if you have enough money to stick in the game maybe you can become you can become part of the 10%.

It's my experience that a lot of companies try to sell you strategies, usually at a very high price, but no one really teaches how to trade. If you don't know what the market is doing and cannot properly ascertain when to enter and when to exit, the strategy really doesn't do you much good. A lot of companies also sell indicators. Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion, the only leading indicator is price. I find indicators are more of a confirmation source than a true indicator. For me, it comes down to being able to read a chart, keeping abreast of the market environment, and knowing some basics. That said, there is still no such thing as a 100% success rate.
Hello Bill 47

Don't be afraid. And nobody will sue you. If you go to other forums and blogs...traders post the bad companies so no one else gets taken.

I was told stay away from high price vendors...if somebody really making money trading and want to help...why sell a system or method or indicator etc. for outrageous prices.

I was told to stay away from tradertech(the one with a service for thousands of dollars for telling u went to go short or long), Kingfish, falcondaytraders, the Tradingzone ( all on paltalk). Stay away from Ray Chong and the e-book "one simple trade.' May work 3 times in a month...

Also I really don't know how the courses and systems from Bill Poulous, Mike Reed and Tradestalker, Roy Kelly and TrendPro,, sp500guru are any good.

Apart from this forum, you should always check elitedaytrader, trade2win etc to get feeback before purchase. And when u ask for audited statements or due dilligence requests and they fall on deaf years...stay away.

Trading is about making money....People selling systems about trading is not necessariyl about making from trading but from YOU.

There is a site and the trader goes by the name of Nihaba Ashi and posts on He trades ER and seems to be doing fantastic. Again, take your time and check it out and ask questions from them. He answers questions on,has a forum there. I don't like traders averaging up or down...because a real good trader should be able to make money with 1 lot. I am not a member of his service.

Most people selling trader services, systems, methods should be on a trading forum ( NOt advertising) answering questions about their system/method/trade calls etc...if not beware and ask ask ask around.

Caveat Emptore...buyer beware. I have learned to never give my money over easy now...I procrastinate. Don't believe posted results on websites...ask for further proof...real probably won't get an answer.

At the end of the day, if you cannot make money trading with a simple way ( that really is freedom) then look further. The market at least ES, ER, YM and NQ oscillates every 3-6 trading days from a swing hi to a swing lo. If you can just get the 10-12 pt range from high to low you are laughing. Market makers need oscillation not to hold the bag at hi or lo levels...and the big boys need their 30 or more pt gains...

You will not get the low or hi exactly but look for 1-2-3 top and 1-2-3 bottom for entries.

Since trading for 1.5 years losing...staring at the and resistance entries and exits...1 or 2pt stop out....this is what everybody uses and very few are remotely good at it.....Daytrading/retail trading has allowed the big boys to make even more money from us.

So why try to risk losing money everyday...let them show their hand by driving the price up one way or other ( hi or low)..think like them...yes not easy.

Anyway, I am searching for an easier way and correspondence here has been enlightning.



ps...ok sorry for long post...wanted people's input on vendors I mentioned above