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POC (Up or down ) and PRICE


Hi
Sorry english is not my fisrt language, but here I go......
My questions simple.
Many times in the daily session the POC change UP or Down
I observ that when POC is going UP the price is going down, and when the POC move to down the price is going UP
I think in the first case, that enter seller to the market and when the POC is move down enter buyers and the price is going UP.-
I think that when is a normail day or neutral day ( when short time traders are in control)
But when the long time traders are in control, as Trend days the POC-PRICE move in the same direction.-
Is that right ??
I belive is very importand to discover the diferent ask 3 questions
1- IS a normal day or neutral days ??
2- Is a Trends days ??
3- where the POC move ?? - If the move is into VA I belive more that day traders are in control, if POC is move of a margin of VA is very posible long time traders are in control
I like your opinion and experience

Thanks in advance

Bienvenido Successlife! Espero que te puedo ayuda.

What you are talking about is the "developing" POC. You usually refer to the the POC as the final POC from the previous trading session and the DPOC as the current (dynamic) POC.

If the market is below the DPOC then it will be building more TPO's there and logically the DPOC will have a tendency to move down so if the market starts moving up then you would logically see the DPOC moving down which is what I think you are seeing. The opposite (as you observed) applies if the market is above the DPOC.

If it is a trend day then the TPO's will only be building on one side of the DPOC which will cause the DPOC to be "pulled" in the same direction as the trend.

Typically traders look for a convincing breakout of the VA to determine if the long term trader has taken control and will turn this into a trend day. Remember that the VA is the VA created from the previous trading session. The DVA is the VA currently being created. As the day progresses the DVA becomes more important than the VA.
Gracias Amigo

Yes ! it great.

First I dont know the diferent VA-DVA ans POC-DPOC, Thanks
that concep now is very clear for me.

An you have a reason,. if the market is below or above, then the cont of TPO is more in this side and then fisrt DPOC is chanhe and then the market is move in the oposite direction.
One point very importand now for me, is when si a trend days the DPOC is move in the same direcction all the time, until the trend change
In your experience, where DPOC is move is relative valor or not ??
(as in the middle od DVA or in the extention of DVA near to the high o low at the days)
I belive the real chalenger for traders use MP is understand if the days is rotational or trend in the middle of the session.-
Do your have any tips to detect the enter of Long time frame traders ??

Thanks

In the chart below the 3 broken lines are (from top to bottom) the DVAH, DPOC, DVAL.

Click image for original size
ES 5 min chart on trend day 26 July 2007 with developing VA's and POC.


That chart is an example of a trend day in the ES last Thursday 26 July 2007. The DPOC always follows the price with the longest line of TPO's that is closest to the center of the chart.

The challenge for all traders is to know if it's going to be a Z-day or a trend day. If you can discover that then you are 80% of the way there. After that you know that you can use oscillator style indicators on Z-days and moving average derived indicators on trend days.

One of the general tips to join the longer term time frame traders when using Market Profile is the go with the breakout of the Initial Balance - IB - and target Double IB.
strange, MP numbers from last week Thursday had also worked well for last Friday and today.
Thanks
I have a new questions.-
When you have a broken level ??
Many times the price broken level for one o litle more and is going in the othes side.-
When you have complete idea thay the level is broken and the price is going in the same direction ?

Jorge
volume is the key, say it test support level, what does it need to break support level, answer:more down(red) volume. More up(blue) volume to break out resistant level. What if it breaks the level then re-test that level again. One again volume is the key, if the re-test is at lower volume than prior b/o b/d volume then you can anticipate the level will hold.
nkhoi is right, volume is extremely important. They other thing that traders look for is a break of 3 to 4 ticks in the ES which equates to 0.75 to 1 points. In the YM that would be 7 to 10 points.

From there you have a number of ways of entering a position in the breakout direction:
You can go all in at market. You can try a limit close the where the market is trading. Some traders go in half at market and put a limit to enter other half at the breakout level with a stop about double the difference between the market and limit entries.
When dealing with intraday trading how does one know what volume to really use? For example lets compare a 5 minute and one minute chart...we could break down from a support point on a one minute chart with high volume but then the next 4 one minute bars the volume dries up and we get a close above the support point.

All the one minute traders may have taken the short and now have been faked out. I guess my real point is that volume can be tricky when dealing with multiple time frames for us day traders
One of the answers is to also be watching at least one volume based chart. I use the 3,000 contract per bar volume chart to proxy a 1 minute chart and then just multiply that out to proxy other time frames. IMO you only need 1 volume chart to supplement your time based chart if you're already happy with the time based chart. Then compare the steepness and range of the bar on the volume to the other bars on the volume and against the time based chart to get an idea of what is normal and what is not. This page in the Chart Types article shows 2 identical charts, one time based and one volume based to give you an idea.
volume dries up is precursor to an explosive move. In case of 5m vol tell you one thing and 1m tell you another thing; I use 2m myself and woodie crowd use 3m, so what to do? stick to whatever time interval you feel most comfortable with and forget the rest or do the volume bar as DT said.
I actually run another indicator on my volume charts called BarSpeed which tells me if the bar formed quickly or took so long that I'm not interested in how long it took to form. So in essence, I'm adding the "volume" back in as an indicator by reversing (or turning upside down) what I'm looking at. I'm not saying that this is any better than having a time based chart with volume below it because what it's doing is taking the time element and putting that on a histogram below the chart and putting the volume element on the chart or rather completely removing the volume element because we know that each bar "holds" X number of contracts. You might find that looking at the markets from this angle gives you a new perspective which allows you to see something that you didn't see before.

Like nkhoi said, stick to what is working or what you know and I agree. Once you find a time frame or volume number (or tick count) chart that you think you can work with and you get use to it then you will start seeing more setups on that time frame/volume size/tick count. It's like a new car. Once you get used to the fact that they've switched the windscreen washer and indicator controls around you stop using the windscreen washers to try and change lanes and drive the car a bit better. Always takes some time to get used to.