ES led by YM or reverse?

heard a lot of comments on this...what do you think?...does the ES lead the YM or reverse...or should you be looking at cash SPX versus cash DJI?...who is the leader, lagger?...if you look at a 3,5,10 minute chart etc.?...thanks in advance!!

interesting but irrelevant and unreliable.

i suggest you study the relationships of relative strength between the indices.

I agree PT and we need to put these concepts in Context,,,,If I had to pick two things to watch it would be the cash markets after 11 a.m. E.s.t for market divergences....I normally assume the cash dow will trade at 8-10 points for every cash S&P point...

at one point today I noticed the Dow was up 80 while the S&P was up twelve points....so perhaps a buy signal on the Dow would have more power under these conditions as the S&P I would normally assume is trading stronger and pull up the dow,,,,again context is key and nothing is that great in a vacuum..

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Originally posted by pt_emini

interesting but irrelevant and unreliable.

i suggest you study the relationships of relative strength between the indices.

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thanks guys...while we are at it...which of these do you put more value on as it relates to the ES...meaning, tracking their moves that might move the ES...Crude Oil, 10 Year Note, Gold, Euro, Yen??...DAX?...nah, the DAX seems to track the ES...thoughts?

none of those you mention

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Originally posted by BruceM

none of those you mention

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wow...why none?

I feel that you don't need them. Just what's happening with the main indexes and even those you don't need all in the first hour - 90 minutes....so much order flow testing seems to go in that period of time...set up your S/R zones and look for entries..

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Originally posted by IncreaseNow

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wow...why none?
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price determines possibility of a trade setup and precise time determines direction. 53 pt up last week...so far this week 58.25 down....low to high and high to low...Dec contract. You can be done trading in one day for the week.

Now, even if you did not get the extremes..you can easily make 8-10 pts in a week...all in one trade. No indicators, courses, etc needed. Just read the first paragraph again and get the epiphany I got after daytrading from May 2006-June 2007 losing terribly. What I just told you is worth tens of thousands of dollars in a course- mind you a souped up one- and you got it free here because daytrading(site owner) and Bruce M are first class people.

Now maybe I'll call my style macro trading.

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Originally posted by pips2007

price determines possibility of a trade setup and precise time determines direction. 53 pt up last week...so far this week 58.25 down....low to high and high to low...Dec contract. You can be done trading in one day for the week.

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thanks and wow...can you break that down a little more?...step by step?

"precise time determines direction."

you have raised my curiosity, can you elaborate on your meaning ?

Increasenow, Did you notice what happened today about 2:30 e.s.t?

The dow was making a new high on the day ( My YM chart begins at 9:30 to synch up with the S&P open) while the S&P was not....then we sold off a bit...at this same time the Dow CASH market was going to unchanged on the day while the S&P CASH was down almost 6 points....( this is telling me there is still weakness in the market...should be 8-10 dow points for every S&P...so dow in theory should have been down 50 -60 points)


Then a little after 3:30 both markets where making new highs...so this would be a clue if you were thinking of fading


Perhaps some members of the forum would like to give their feedback as to what else was happening at these times with the TICK or adv=dec or anything else they can think of....so the context is real important..

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Originally posted by BruceM

Increasenow, Did you notice what happened today about 2:30 e.s.t?

The dow was making a new high on the day ( My YM chart begins at 9:30 to synch up with the S&P open) while the S&P was not....then we sold off a bit...at this same time the Dow CASH market was going to unchanged on the day while the S&P CASH was down almost 6 points....( this is telling me there is still weakness in the market...should be 8-10 dow points for every S&P...so dow in theory should have been down 50 -60 points)


Then a little after 3:30 both markets where making new highs...so this would be a clue if you were thinking of fading


Perhaps some members of the forum would like to give their feedback as to what else was happening at these times with the TICK or adv=dec or anything else they can think of....so the context is real important..

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I was trading through the day so I can add my 2 cents, fwiw...

As lunch ended and the afternoon session got some volume filling in, this is what I observed. The financials were struggling and that was holding a firm lid on any upside in the cash dow and the ES. This was negatively influencing the ER2 which was keeping the $TICK under zero. While this was going on, the NQ was showing relative strength thanks to the semi index which took the leadership role on the upside (the semi's never looked back and ran to the close.) As soon as the selling in the financials eased and a solid bid came into that index, the ES and cash dow brokeout to the upside along with the ER2 which had been hovering around the unchanged level. Once everything finally got moving in sync, the NQ and ER2 really took off to the upside and closed very strongly.