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A question for futures traders



I am curious to find out if anyone else thinks this could be a help to their trading.

My premise is that the market has 3 major groups of participants- Institutions, retail and speculators. The institutions are the biggest participants and move the market the most. Retail participants are the 2nd largest group and also are important to major moves. Speculators are traders like us that are trying to make money off the moves of the other two groups.

So, knowing what the institutions and retail people are can definitely be an advantage.

I think I have found a way to determine what the other 2 groups are doing in real time- I wonder if others think this would be helpful to their trading?

If this makes sense to others, my thought is to open room and share this info with others real time. This would not be for "newbies". It would be more for those that have a trading method and would like to increase their profitability. I'm not interested in calling trades but to provide, what I think is the "missing link" to profitable trading. This would not be an altruistic endeavor, if I can share it successfully with others I would end up charging for the service.

I am asking in this forum because I think the participants here act in a more professional and serious manner than most of the other trading forums. (Please don't prove me wrong)
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Johnson

I have no personal axes to grind with anyone, but I will not stay in any room where people are claiming to be successful in a trade by just saying I've made two points, I've been in subscription trade rooms where at the end of the week, if you added up everyone's success there was over $50,000 changing hands yet they were grousing about the $100/month for the room.

Ask yourself this question; was TI actually looking at charts or a Magic Eight Ball...I dunno. I need a lot more transparency when someone claims to have a useful tool. My biggest peeve is the trader that all of a sudden has made successful trade, yet there was no indication that they were in a trade, please don't talk about your exits if you are not going to discuss your entries. Finally, anyone that actually figures out the market will undoubtedly become one of the richest people in the world...or they haven't figured out the market.


You raise two issues. The first is about paltalk trolling traders who visit free rooms (like this one) and post with reckless abandon after the fact. Yes, it is annoying and absurd, but that has absolutely nothing to do with TI, unless you believe he planted those people in the room. During lunch, he read our posts here and was very upset. He proclaimed that there were no shills in the room and he didn't control nor know anyone. If he is at fault, it is because he didn't set strict rules down about posting trades.

The second issue may or may not negate the first. His mission or experiment was to learn if people found his broadcasting valuable. He had no intentions of letting anyone see what he was using which gave rise to those broadcasts. In effect, he was like a weatherman telling you a forecast, but not getting into the scientific jargon of why, for example, a noreaster is developing--he was simply providng the data as he saw it. If there was enough interest from the visitors he would consider opening a room and charging a monthly fee for the "news" and nothing more; no trades, no explanations, no details. Basically a play-by-play of the retail and institutional activity that can have an effect on the ES market.

He has now determined that most traders who visit chat rooms really wants trading calls, not broadcasts, and he has zero interest in that. I think he also realizes that a broadcasting room is a major project and not worth the effort regardless.

A few people in the room expressed inerest in learning the methodology behind those broadcasts and TI is mulling over whether that is something he wants to do. Under that scenario, he would charge a flat fee for the training and give support to students for a month or so in a private room.

Finally, TI has not represented he has found the holy grail, but he believes this information is an edge for HIS method of trading. The question for each of us is whether it is an edge for OUR individual methods of trading? This is no mechanical black box, buy the green, sell the red dot tool by any stretch of the imagination.
If anyone ever figures out what it is TI is selling, and make no mistake he is selling, maybe they can post it on this forum. As to listening to a broadcast of what the market might or might not do based on unproven and arcane information is not my cup of tea. Trading is hard enuogh without another dubious signal to process. Like the pilots over Hanoi during the Vietnam war who shut their SAM radar alerts off because they were ever present and gving the explanation that...they saw no need to die nervous, I don't need another buzzer going off while I am concentrating. Hope someone follows up on it.
Today I did not attend but yesterday it was interesting I spend 8 hours in the room. Note here I have a good system and wonted to see if TI had something that will give me en edge, so I listen all day then my set up kicked in at 12:30 and wanted to see if TI will see that and give me the info that he supposedly have or knows and all I heard is the big guys and the cash people over and over but no signal or a hint of what to do with the information that he was broadcasting, so I said to my wife I got to take this trade and If this guy don't see it well that is too bad.
I don't know maybe I'm wrong or maybe he don't know how to express his thoughts or the information he has, I got the impression hes got something but I dint get it..........
Thought I might add my thoughts.
Was in the room the first day and what I heard was "the institutions are selling" etc after anyone can see the market already heading lower. Was not impressed especially calling selling at lows when market is turning up.

To be of any value he has to make calls as the market is heading up in real time indicating buying drying up not after the high of that move has peaked. Sell into strength, etc.

Thanks
I would like to thank those members that helped me with this experiment. After 4 days, it became apparent that most were not interested in a news service environment. I hope some of the information I gave helped some. Good luck to all in your trading endeavors...TI
quote:
Originally posted by TI Anon

I would like to thank those members that helped me with this experiment. After 4 days, it became apparent that most were not interested in a news service environment. I hope some of the information I gave helped some. Good luck to all in your trading endeavors...TI


Thank you, too, TI. Best of everything.
"At this time, I have decided that teaching and sharing my method, of reading the sentiment of the different participants in the market; would not be in my best interest. Since, I use this method to trade and earn my living, releasing it could have the effect of dulling any edge it currently gives me. I want to thank you for your respect, interest and honest comments during the last week. I, only hope, something I shared with you was worth the time and effort you spent in the chat room.

Trade well and prosper....TI"

I received this from T1. I find it a bit hard to believe because there were only 10 people who showed interest in learning his indicator and it is unlikely they would all be interested in paying whatever price he might have asked, so he may have gotten a few people to sign up. To think this would dilute his edge is either naïve, arrogant or both, especially since he is a 5-10 contract ES trader who makes less then a handful of trades a day. In addition, he wasn’t going to teach us how he trades using this information, so it’s not as if thousands of contracts would be entering the market at the same time as him to compete for a fill. Therefore, his rationale for not teaching is totally flawed and perhaps insincere.

I think daytrading hit the nail on the head in the beginning of this thread. It is reasonable to assume that T1’s underlying wish for the experiment was to capture a big interest in his broadcasting service with the possibility of recurring monthly revenue and when it became apparent that wasn't going to fly, the music stopped so to speak. Under that arrangement, he wouldn't be called to prove he could actually trade as profitably as he asserted (he claimed a 95% win ratio), but if he asked for thousands to teach as opposed to a few hundred bucks per month, the due diligence requests from traders like me who would insist he provide evidence that he trades profitably with his secret, may have scared him away. When the line is drawn in the sand for documentation, the silence can become deafening.

Unfortunately, the song remains the same with vendors and those who want to become one of them.
Like Dr Evil to his son Scott, "you just don't get it". If anyone has an edge they are never ever going to share it, anymore than a shoe shine guy is going to give up his "hot" corner once in a while...why? To come out of nowhere and give it to people that you have no idea who they are, and promise that they too can make money with this information is foolish. Go to the horse track there are all sorts of people with a "system". Like I said in an earlier post, show me your records, call a winning trade prospectively, and if you prove to me that you have something vialble I will pay up to $5,000 per week for information like that, but you are going to have to prove it. I mean with the right info one trade with 10 contracts moving (like today @11;20 on ER2)9 pts I would gladly pay anyone $2000 for that setup.

Would you ever walk out of the woods after finding a gold nugget and tell anyone where you found it...really.
quote:
[i]
Would you ever walk out of the woods after finding a gold nugget and tell anyone where you found it...really.


Honestly, not until I mined all the gold out of it. I know that sounds horribly greedy, but it is the truth, so help me God.
quote:
Would you ever walk out of the woods after finding a gold nugget and tell anyone where you found it...really.



So, Bruce, I'm curious. Do you really think that someone who, say, spent twenty or thirty thousand hours scouring the woods looking for gold, and found things that helped them in that process to not waste as much time, to better find potential gold areas, all the while not revealing the location of their own exact gold strike, would that not be useful information? Say they felt that maybe by helping people not to reinvent the wheel from scratch every time, they thought maybe they could cut another's time to reach their own goal, for example, from perhaps twenty or thirty thousand hours down to fifteen or twenty thousand hours, that would not have any value?

Let's assume the person was fully willing to show they had indeed found plenty of gold, but there were no secrets except perhaps the process will take at least twenty thousand hours, and many, perhaps 90%, will still fail. The person feels they can help cut the learning curve back, guide the person in putting together a comprehensive trading plan, and teach them about the hard work necessary. They don't mention anything about showing them their own gold strike, only the things that helped them develop the skills to find their own gold strike, if they put in twenty thousand hours, and with no assurance that time put in guarantees success. You feel that would have no value?

I am 100% in agreement with almost everyone on this forum in that most vendors are scam artists, we all know that, we all see the same games in here every day. On the other hand, what I disagree with is that many then conclude there is no way anyone legitimate would every teach anyone anything, or to do so would always jeopardize, or give away, what they learned. I just don't think that is the case whatsoever. I feel it is possible to teach a person to fish, and not tell them where your fishing hole is, or where your own stash of fish is. Teach a person how to develop their own trading concepts based on a solid foundation of tools, and how to work at their plan. I feel it can be done, and won't reveal anyone's gold strike or fishing hole.

I am not willing to reveal all that it took me thirty thousand hours to discover, but I am willing to reveal the entire thinking process and work ethic that allowed me to make the discoveries that I have. I think that has helped some develop their own material and trading plans. Nothing anyone can ever say could convince me what I have shown others has been of zero value. There may be very few people out there providing anything of value or use to traders, but there are some.
T1, rome wasn't built in a day,don't be discouraged by any one who seems to shout the sky is falling in every one of their posts,take it with a grain of salt,that's just how the world is at present