D, L & C

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The D is for Jim Dalton and the L for Terry Liberman. Who is the C?

Can you give us some background on each of them? Short bios perhaps?

quote:
Originally posted by day trading

The D is for Jim Dalton and the L for Terry Liberman. Who is the C?

Can you give us some background on each of them? Short bios perhaps?

Great idea; I will put together and post some short bios today. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jim Dalton is an independent trader, educator, past member of the CBOT and CBOE, and, perhaps most famously, author of Mind over Markets and Markets in Profile. Jim also sponsored Pete Steidlmayer's original work, Markets and Market Logic. Jim served as executive VP of the CBOE as well as Chairman of Paine Webber FMC. Jim served four years with the Marine Corp. and has several years experience at IBM and Merrill Lynch.

Terry Liberman is a business advisor, educator, independent trader and author of The Catalyst. Terry is also my primary contact at DLC and it's a genuine pleasure to work with this man.

Together, Jim and Terry created and operate DLC Profiles. Here is how they describe their organization:

quote:
DLC Profiles, Inc. is an independent, fee-for-service, educational firm committed to being the preeminent learning resource for traders of all timeframes, a firm that provides progressive, interactive, contextual, learning experiences that support traders in advancing their market and self understanding.

We achieve our vision by creating and facilitating interactive learning experiences that:
[1] support traders in advancing their market and self-understanding
[2]empower dedicated individuals on their path toward becoming expert traders.

I hope that gives at least some glimpse into what Jim and Terry are all about. I'm sitting here looking at my beat-to-hell copy of MoM (it has been used, not just read) and can't imagine a better training opportunity than working with its author. And looking over my suggested study plan, it is very clear these guys aren't playing around; their conviction that trading is a teachable, transferable pursuit is evident everywhere.

by the way, throughout this journal, I will be inserting a lot of hyperlinks and repeating those links across posts. I do this for ease of access and nothing else. I get nothing from Amazon (or anyone else) if someone clicks on a link or buys a book while at the site. My motive is very simple: when I refer to an online resource, I want access to that resource to be immediately available to the reader.

Thanks!

Here's a bit more about Terry:

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TERRY C. LIBERMAN

For more than 30 years, Terry was a consultant service businesses and professional practices. His primary work focused on start-ups, business expansion, and turnarounds. He is best known for facilitating individual and group processes focused the design and implementation of self-managed strategic plans.

Believing that financial matters were neither mysterious nor hard to understand, Terry's commitment was to de-mystify the "black box" concept of finances for his clients. He accomplished this by providing them with and access to commonsense, real-world, self-manageable tools which clients used in making their own decisions and, at the same time, change unilateral, non-productive dependency relationships with their advisors into effective, supportive, mutually beneficial relationships. He worked with clients throughout the USA and Canada in addition to making presentations to professional groups and associations, universities and study groups.

In the late 1980’s, Terry brought together his years of experience and his unique philosophy in the form of his published book, The Catalyst: A Decision Making Process Based on Values. He used this workbook as a tool to help his clients develop the self-understanding that allowed them to achieve their goals and, ultimately, to go further faster. He has also responsible for writing and publishing over 20 volumes of the Resource Capitalization Series of financial and business “how to” workbooks, reference guides and reports.

What has never added up for me was the golden question:

A consistently profitable trader (like they are supposedly training you to become) is a person that can take from the markets a much larger amount of $ than they can charge their "students". So the golden question is: Why run an educational service instead of just trading?.

Sure Market Profile can explain a lot of things in the market, after the fact. But can it really give you a superior approach to entry and exit?. When you ask them that question specifically to DLC(How do you exactly get in and get out tactically?), they respond with some vague answer about expert traders (them?) and novices (me?), etc, etc.

Asides of giving you Key Reference Areas, i.e. Levels to look for a tactical entry/exit, and some general market trending (initiating) or distributing (bracketing), there is precious little in market profile for the short-term tactically oriented trader. What precious little there is, can be gotten from their books, specially the MIP by Dalton.

The experience (quality screen time) required to operate successfully can't be bought or sold for any amount of $, and the fact that they, themselves SELL courses, etc, etc. makes me highly suspicious that they, themselves are not consistently profitable traders.

This is just a tough profession, and many things that "appear" true are, in fact not so when looked under a microscope.

That's just my opinion.

JW

Hi John -

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your opinion. While I disagree with it, I do realize it is not an uncommon belief.

Personally, i've never subscribed to the idea that someone who provides a learning opportunity is of questionable character. it just doesn't make any sense. nevermind the fact that the calls and webinars are always after RTH. or that the crux of the CL/CES is self-directed and self-paced. in every performance based endeavor, you find teachers, instructors, coaches, and mentors. i would never expect discretionary trading to be excluded from this reality.

as for screen time, aimless screen time is worthless. i should no more assume that i could develop my discretionary trading skills just by watching a monitor than anyone could step foot in an operating room because they watched Discovery channel all the time. i don't care how it comes about, but guided, active observation will always trump screen time just for the sake of screen time.

you are right about one thing and that is that DLC is not a trade-calling operation. of course, i did state that from the very beginning of this journal, so you didn't bring up anything i haven't already put out there. actually, i would be much more suspicious of someone trying to sell trade entries and exits than a market understanding that can transferred and adapted to an individual's personality and trading style.

Since it seems clear you don't see value in what my journal or DLC offers, I won't waste your or my time further presenting my perspective. Feel free to change the channel ...

And, again, I sincerely thank you for offering your opinion. Have a great week!

I agree that aimless screen time is worthless. And I think there's value in the technique and this thread, so I'll stick with the channel for the time being. I also agree that if you aim to learn market profile, Dalton is about the best there is, both knowing the matter and being able to teach it.

I re-iterate that the method, as it stands, lacks good tactical entries and exits. Specially for scalpers. You may want to ask Terry or Jim about learning to scalp and see how they respond. I'd be interested to know.

Where I really stand from the practical point of view is: If a good scalper learns and applies market profile principles to extend the timeframe of a trade (with a partial/portion of their position), he can have trades with a phenomenal reward/risk ratio. For me, every trade starts as a scalp. Then it may end as a scalp, a stop or an extended exit. To each his own.

Peace to you and good trading.

Now we are getting somewhere

I completely agree, that if your preferred style is scalping, this path may not be optimal. in fact, I don't even need to ask Terry or Jim because they made it very clear from the earliest discussions that they don't cater to scalping. they don't have anything against it as a trading method, but it just isn't their focus.

And, like you stated, this isn't to suggest that MP can't be applied to scalping. i've seen it used as a strategical basis in a number of different scalping schemes (i.e. 30-min intraday profiles, micro-volume profiles, and dynamic value area profiles).

thanks for bringing up the topic of scalping via MP. while very doable, the CL/CES curriculum is not geared towards scalping.

I'm reading though the post now, and there are some really good information here. Thanks a lot omni. Looking forward to read future posts

quote:
Originally posted by tlambrechts

I'm reading though the post now, and there are some really good information here. Thanks a lot omni. Looking forward to read future posts

glad to have you here TL

hope you find this journal useful.

BTW, there is a new Profile Bulletin and it covers much of what the CL/CES is all about.

have a great week