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Is This Really A Worthwhile Dream?


Hello All. I am new to the forum and have joined out of my frustration.

I have tried several systems out there and have failed by blowing out my accounts several times. I am a Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert (CCIE), do private consulting and consider myself to be a pretty sharp guy, BUT I cant seem to get day trading the emini S&P to work consistently. My belief systems are a bit down on this dream of mine so my question to you all is this.....

Do you or someone you know day trade full time and earn at least 300k per year? What is your honest success story. I need to hear this from someone who is not trying to sell me some **** that DON'T WORK!


...SORRY FOR THE SWEARING :( Seriously, if you know of a person, program, book, system or idea please just email me and I will review. I will even pay a finders fee to your paypal account if it is worthwhile. Thanks for your help.
I suggest you look for a vendor that might provide audited financial statements. Expecting those of us who provide ideas and actual trades as they happen to post our statements would be asking a bit too much- although I have suggested it in the past on the ES threads. In hindsight it seems like it would be overkill and not very useful. You either believe in an idea and make it your own or you don't.

Like Monkey said there are a few of us who have been posting for years in the ES threads our trades. Kool Blue and myself were posting as they happened and the forum time stamps the POTENTIAL entries. Naturally one should ALWAYS be skeptical of anything they see or read on the internet and chat rooms. You just don't know who is real and who is just some kid having fun at the expense of others.

This is probably not what you are looking for and it seems that you need something verified. I can understand that.


Day trading requires discipline and patience. I suggest that you look at your results over an extended period of time and not just on a day to day basis. We can sit in front of our computers daily and not have any trade setups or trade poorly but you need to analyze your results on a monthly and weekly basis. We are conditioned to be paid for a unit of effort but sometimes the big payment comes from a few good trades each week. Often we take small profits or losses. Other times we break even and later in the week we have some great trades that let us get "paid" for all the time that seems wasted from other days.

The bottom line is that you can't always expect immediate positive feedback from the markets in the form of profits. Often the paydays are delayed. It's very different from a "real" job.

Bruce
A lot of excellent, hard earned, advice in this thread !

I am not all into the psychology thing, it is my pragmatic view that all the psychology in the world cannot overcome a negative expectancy. Conversely, once a trader is consistently profitable the psychological discourse fades into the rear view mirror pretty quickly. Nothing like winning to brighten your mood.

High IQ, successful in the business world ? Check that at the door too, it's just going to get in your way and make everything harder and more costly. If I had $1 for every aspiring engineer I have met over the years... Engineers and 50 something housewives make the worst traders in my experience. Strike One.

For some grounding in reality, give your ultra-IQ some exercise and read Jim Kane's Fun ES Math Facts.

I will share one story about someone I recently had the pleasure of spending some time with. This trader has been trading about 7 years. Last year the individual netted a little over +$200K for the year, trading the TF (Russell 2000 futures contract) full time. The year before, was their first net winning year, netting a little over +$50K. The previous five "learning years" were consistent net losing years. I give this individual a great deal of credit and respect for having fought through the losing years and working it out. I would strongly suggest to you this example is an exception and certainly does not represent the average new futures trader's experience.

How to make $300K trading futures with no experience and a high IQ ? start with $3 Million....
LOL.. Thanks for the honesty and suggestions. I am really enjoying these responses. Keep them coming!
My experience is similar to that shared by pt-emini. It took me 4 years and a lot of lossed $$ to just trade at breakeven. Last year (my 5th year) was my first profitable year and this year I am performing close to what I thought I should be doing 3 years ago. Trading is truly the most difficult job I have ever tried to conquer.

One of the hardest things to figure out in trading is what style best fits your make-up - is it day trading futures, day trading stocks, swing trading options, trend trading stocks, or the countless other strategies available out there.

Top Lessons:
1. Less is More - trade less (fewer trades) to make more / use fewer indicators

2. Focus - master 1 set-up B4 trying to learn another / focus on just a few indicators / focus on just a few time frames

3. Get Away - you gotta get away from trading to clear your head when things aren't going well - whether this is intraday for 1-2 hours, a long weekend, or 1-2 weeks. This helps you be more objective.
Just curious...has anyone ever found a vendor willing to show audited financial or even a trading account statement? I won't spend money on a system unless the vendor shows that they make money with it. I always get the "brush off" when I ask if they can "put their money where their mouth is".

Thanks!



Originally posted by BruceM

I suggest you look for a vendor that might provide audited financial statements. Expecting those of us who provide ideas and actual trades as they happen to post our statements would be asking a bit too much- although I have suggested it in the past on the ES threads. In hindsight it seems like it would be overkill and not very useful. You either believe in an idea and make it your own or you don't.

Like Monkey said there are a few of us who have been posting for years in the ES threads our trades. Kool Blue and myself were posting as they happened and the forum time stamps the POTENTIAL entries. Naturally one should ALWAYS be skeptical of anything they see or read on the internet and chat rooms. You just don't know who is real and who is just some kid having fun at the expense of others.

This is probably not what you are looking for and it seems that you need something verified. I can understand that.


Day trading requires discipline and patience. I suggest that you look at your results over an extended period of time and not just on a day to day basis. We can sit in front of our computers daily and not have any trade setups or trade poorly but you need to analyze your results on a monthly and weekly basis. We are conditioned to be paid for a unit of effort but sometimes the big payment comes from a few good trades each week. Often we take small profits or losses. Other times we break even and later in the week we have some great trades that let us get "paid" for all the time that seems wasted from other days.

The bottom line is that you can't always expect immediate positive feedback from the markets in the form of profits. Often the paydays are delayed. It's very different from a "real" job.

Bruce
Golf Score

Tried several systems that failed.........PAR (for the course)

Blew up several accounts..................PAR

Frustrated/Disillusioned....................PAR

Now looking to follow a Guru.............TRIPLE BOGEY

Dismissing Psychology as an issue......TRIPLE BOGEY

Joining a Forum and asking for help....PAR


The Gallery waits to see if the Rookie will find his swing or break his clubs and toss them into the next water hazard.


Ok enough kidding. You say you're looking for a successful trader to talk to. If its to get advice that's fine but if you're hoping that you'll be able to follow them and then all will be well, you're going to get the same results you did trying those different systems that failed for you. Trading is a uniquely personal experience and everyone is different. What works for some will not work for others.

Staylor455 had some good advice "take what works and make it your own" but fell short on saying how to make it your own. Here's one way to do that. Go back to those systems that you call "**** that DONT WORK" and MAKE them work (you didn't state if these were auto trade sys so I'm assuming they're not). All systems have some merit. Find out what that is and figure out how to capitalize on it. If the system only wins 25% of the time learn how to identify that 25%. Can the system be successful with different money management? Ex: take some small profits or let winners run longer. Does it work better in certain market conditions (trend vs. range, slow vs. fast)

I can go on and on but my point is when you stop saying they don't work and have figured out how to make them work you will have made it your own.

Try not to get discouraged Failure in this business is often a step in the right direction.
Thanks for the advice Myptofvu. I think all of the responses here will help not just me but many others who take time to read it.

I WILL find my swing!
visit this link to see a typical journey of a trader...

www.mypivots.com/board/topic/4460/1/evolution-of-a-trader

Please read The Disciplined Trader and Trading in the Zone By Mark Douglas.
Do this before you get any more psychological damage chasing systems.
You do need set ups but you really have to make them your own by objectively observing the market for a few years not a few months.

The Disciplined Trader was recommended by a floor trader I payed to teach me how to trade He called it his Bible. When I first read it in 2006 it didn't make sense and I spent more time learning all his set ups. I was suppose to read it more then once but I didn't read it again until 2011 which is officially my first profitable year, I only made 2000 in a couple months but I did that trading 2 to 3 100 lot SPY with a 50,000 dollar account I will add more as the account grows but I needed to learn how to crawl before I can run with the emini.
Originally posted by seeno73

Please read the Disciplined Trader and Trading in the Zone By Mark Douglas.
Do this before you get any more psychological damage chasing systems.
You do need set ups but you really have to make them your own by objectively observing the market for a few years not a few months.

The Disciplined Trader was recommended by a floor trader I payed to teach me how to trade He called it his Bible. When I first read it in 2006 it didn't make sense and I spent more time learning all his set ups. I was suppose to read it more then once but I didn't read it again until 2011 which is officially my first profitable year, I only made 2000 in a couple months but I did that trading 2 to 3 100 lot SPY with a 50,000 dollar account I will add more as the account grows but I needed to learn how to crawl before I can run with the emini.


I recommended this above. I think he said he had read it. If so, I am not sure to what comprehension level.

Best of luck.
Geekodude, Sounds good to me. Have not blown my account yet. But blew alot on a worthless education service. Sent PM.