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My reply To Jim Kane

I have no intention of making a "personal" response and since someone has blocked the ability to use the reply button to your recent post this is the only way I know to reach you. I want to keep this as public as possible and deep down so do you. Our emails in the past have left me with empty promises, I still have emails were you tell me that taking down your site is going to be a slow process. Well, here it is 4 - 5 years later and your still selling stuff from that same site ( it's never been taken down) and I would assume you are still mentoring "private" clients. Your favorite way of teaching. So I guess it really has been a slow process You also never posted the public charts you said you would and I find it funny that you just want to gloss over that. And now your expecting something from me ? How strange ! I found that last post full of ego and arrogance. You should also go back and actually read the fib grid as it has no mention of decimal places or fractions and doesn't use highs or lows to calculate fibonacci lines. That's because they are not fibonacci lines. . That title was just my way of being a wise ass ( people are fibbing if they try to sell you stuff about fibs)as I have never heard of anyone using fibs to make money on a consistent basis. As far as Gann goes you can read what Larry Williams found out about Gann when he met his son and a guy who worked for him. Pure fluff but people still buy into it.

So it doesn't take a genius to realize ahead of time that I am not about to give up my time to validate you JIm. You are getting caught up on wanting to get credit for a number. Some .88 decimal thing or something. Lets have you validate yourself to us. Just scan in 4 years of verified trading statements. You will then have the honor of being one of the one percent ( not even sure if it would be that high )of people selling trading information that can actually back up their claims. Or just take some white out and get rid of your account stuff, scan them in and then all the world can see. You will have the validation you seem to be looking for.They can be quarterly or whatever you want. You obviously have tons of time if you are the one with the most posts and can write so much . So this should be a small task.

I have absolutely no interest in your material. So lets not drag this on and have you keep us waiting for years to get us those statements. You know that I am always suspicious of posts from people that need to keep their name out there. That's a given. It doesn't take a genius to know I would think that.

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention. Oh yeah, one last thing .."wealthy" is a relative term so don't get so hung up on that.

A funny thing came up in my forum. This has been the ultimate losing trade where one keeps adding to the loser instead of taking the loss, hoping it will turn around. I did a real Nick Leeson on this one...
This new topic may gave gotten lost in all the posts above, so here it is again. This way, it will be at the bottom.
let's get to some of these. My comments will be in bold and Italics and with () around them and I will make sure I comment when I see a question mark too !
Originally posted by MarcinO

Initially I was going to write about lack of consistency and logic in posts written by Bruce, but it has been already covered by Jim.
One thing that bothers me, and most likely makes the whole discussion useless is that you seem to be so biased against any vendor, Bruce, that it will prevent you from drawing any conlusions from arguments provided by Jim. ( Oh really how many vendors have I mentioned in this thread and spoke out about please name a few? )

And indeed, your way of 'discussion' is very close to eristics as laid out by Schopenhauer which is a method of 'winning' an argument by finding an aspect of it, which is the easiest to attacck, in honest or dishonest way, connected to the reason of discussion in a very loose way, and claim to that you are right.

But let's assume for a while, that you can keep an open mind, and analyze a couple of facts. I will show you how a typical trading education business works and compare it to what Jim does. After reading it think honestly, whether Jim main focus is indeed making money from education services....

1) I decided to buy Jim's book five years ago after finding his name in bibliography of one trading book. But the key reason that made me do that was a 'free reading' section on his website. It was painfully realistic, warning that you cannot expect to be a profitable trader unless you train hard for five years or more, the same as you cannot be a professional doctor or jet fighter without putting it that much time. Same truth is repeated in a couple articles by Jim.

What can you find on a website of a typical vendor? ( I don't know, what is a typical vendor ? why don't you tell us how many typical vendors you track to make such a comment ?)No introduction like that, at best. In most cases you will find advertisement saying - buy that book and you will become a millionaire in a few weeks. ( Oh really ? which one specifically says that ?)

2) Apart from selling great books really chip, Jim offers free access to his forum where he comments ES price action everyday, providing accurate areas in advance. Up to now he has posted over 32 000 times.

Typical vendor would ask a monthly fee for a service like that. ( so which typical vendors that sell cheap books do this ?)

3) Mentoring. Jim focuses on one to one education which is exhausting and time consuming, therefore not very profitable.

A typical vendor would record a DVD or online workshop and sell it multiple times. ( who are these typical vendors ? I've been out of touch with most of vendor land for the last 5 years? although I know of some good ones)

4) One last thing. I have been a follower of Jim for about five years now and can see what moves he catches on regular basis. Since I can also do a basic maths, I can assure you that trading small size, like a few contracts, makes money he can earn from selling books and running mentoring sessions relatively very small. And I took into account only ES, although I know Jim trades currencies, commodities and stocks as well. ( he said he doesn't trade and doesn't have statements so which is it ? has he started trading since Mondays postings where he said he doesn't trade?)

So? What do you think now? ( my responses tell you what I think. this is a pile of rubbish but a great commercial for Jim )

And I am still waiting for you to answer my question. How does closure of Jim's website, makes him reliable as a trader and inventor of techniques not published by anyone else? ( I already covered this in another post )
This is what you are focusing on, during this discussion, and I cannot find a logic in this connection. Maybe that is because English is not my first language, but I am open to any argumentation from you, Bruce.
No comments on my post, Bruce? I wanted to let you bury yourself even deeper before we lock this one down.
Originally posted by MarcinO

I will reiterate my question, because you are answering something else, I guess.
How does Jim's decision to close or not his website (or change his mind) impacts his credibility as a trader? ( we covered this elsewhere)And I am not asking for any reasons for his alleged change of mind, you are referring me to, but what it has to do with his trading merits? For me the answer is obvious - literally nothing.

One more thing for you to think over, Bruce. Jim's section is followed everyday and is the most active thread in mypivots forum. It wouldn't be like that if he didn't have something really valuable to offer. Some people are there for many years just to see, what Jim has to say about the markets and study his methodology.

I know that one can be biased against trading educators, as there are for sure many dishonest people in this business, but in case of Jim you are making a huge mistake. To be honest, I cannot comprehend how can you do it, without knowing his work? ( I already mentioned it was about keeping true to ones word not the methodology. the progression of this thread tells us he isn't trading also)
Oh, BTW Bruce, you're a long time forum poster. You don't know what a sarc tag is??? /sarc Really? Go back and look for it. Geez.
Plenty of time to harp on Marcin and get more off topic. I'm waiting for your reply. Oh, and for you to go back to the sarc tag and see that. It's like having to explain a joke to someone.
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
Originally posted by MarcinO

Does it occur to you, Bruce, that people can change their mind without losing creidibility, especially when they have a good reason for that?( sure some can but when you put everything in context - the failure to pull the site , the failure to post trades to the public and now the failure to provide statements makes the person lose credibility even more - I was crystal clear and very lenient in what he could post yet he still back peddled against posting them )
So the fact that what Jim does, is close to being exactly opposite to typical vendor actitvities is irrelevant to you in this discussion? ( Oh really ? here we are with the typical vendor comment...who are these people ? As far as I remember vendors sell products and services and some have forums - Doesn't Jim do all of these ? what is the opposite part of this equation - the monthly fee ? Is that what you are basing that on ? )
We have a saying for that in my country, which I will try to translate:
If the facts don't support my opinion, the least is their importance
Doesn't anyone find this beyond bizarre? I clearly posted the entire context of the pulling the site quote, and that definitively puts that one to bed. Bruce is completely ignoring that and rambling on about the same things, an issue that is now put to bed. I guess I have to find and quote the sarc tag so everyone can understand that. Then I'll ask Guy to lock this thread, because this is just getting twisted.
This is my forum in here, no matter who starts the thread. I closed this topic. Posting after that is showing no respect. The only reason it isn't already locked is there were some forum changes and moderators can't lock it right now, so we are waiting on Guy. Please stop posting. If you want to continue this discussion go outside the Kane Trading forum area and start a new thread out there.