i was discouraged last week that other traders here did not see the geometry that foretold the extent of the selloff, all strictly based on tools of this forum.. or if they did they remained silent...at the top i said exactly what i thought and exactly what i was going to do. i was particularly discouraged that jarek, the trader here who has gained an awareness of what i do more so than others, abandoned his thoughts based on what i show exactly at the moment they were most powerful..the message based on the tools of this forum were loud and clear,, the entries were rigorous and exact based on what has been shown before, and BASED ON THE TARGETS GIVEN BY THE TOOLS, the selloff HAD TO BE sharp and swift......... so i will begin again, use the XLF as an example, only because it is interesting in many ways, then show the charts of JPM and GS to show how close price is to hitting targets and then show TZA to show how the tools rigorously gave an all in as well as a continuation...as well as a target...on monday i will cover my stock shorts and exit my TZA and then go do other things........... i can write all the rules i trade on a single piece of paper... what do i know in advance that was useful on these charts?i know in advance that a kane abcd that completes at .382 will take out swing 87% of time..BUT!! AS I HAVE SAID MANy TIMES... the number one way i know to abandon a trade premise is if a kane abcd sets up against it with other geometry...i know that the 1.27 is END OF SWING FIB, particularly if it is present at line from existing medianline set at completion of abcd( i.e. classic kane pattern line fib).... i know in advance that my favorite trade setup is a test and retest after a medianline handoff... with the clear and rigorous target the medianline...in the case of the XLF, once all this was in place, ther was not a single tool saying to even think bullish until target was hit.... now look at JPM and GS. ...note the geometry and target... note how target on all 3 is just below close...now look at TZA... NOTE classic test and retest entry... note target just above......time to stand aside and let market show its hand....it is all just geometry....

Great post, roofer. I voted it up.

Yeah, it can be discouraging, the lack of participation. But, it's not unique to this forum, I've never seen quality participation with your work anywhere. And in my public forum here, essentially no participation based on my work. Yes, if any crew should really be able to participate, you'd think it would be this one, but it's not to be. Everyone has heard me rant and rave in discouragement in the past, so I grasp how you feel. I don't gripe so much anymore because I think I've moved on to the next stage, acceptance. It is what it is. So, I just concentrate on my few private students, and accept that is how it is. Just my two cents.

Geo - I'm sorry to hear that you were particularly discouraged with my decision to limit my posts in this forum to KT methodology only. I understood from Jim's few long recent posts that this was exactly his wish...

I continue to use your tools for my own trading and would like to THANK YOU publicly one more time for all your invaluable gifts.

Well, before anyone develops any hard feelings here, I'd better interject.

As far as the forum, anyone is free to post anything they want as long as it is in the general area of trading with Fibs, lines, and patterns. That being said, the forum was created as a place for KT traders to get together and discuss the methodology, and for me to answer questions and make the occasional post.

Now, when I am working with a student, or someone is here specifically to learn the KT methodology as I show it, if they start mentioning the work of another, be it roofer, T, craft, Duane, whoever, and that work differs from mine or points out a different spot or approach, what am I do do, as far as working with that student at that point?

See, in order for me to teach my methodology it requires a person to first focus on what I am showing, until the entirety is grasped and mastered. Then, at that point, from a standpoint of a pretty good comprehensive knowledge of that methodology, one can start adding in things, taking out things, and customizing it for them. One can't start that process when they don't even understand what they are currently working with.

For example, say roofer is trying to explain to someone 'The Trade', the DBS, the BLT, or whatever, and just as he thinks the person maybe has it, they pipe up and say 'Well, Jim's work is saying this and pointing to that, and I think I want to modify 'The Trade' to incorporate that and so on'. Well, roofer might be thinking 'Geez, the person doesn't even fully understand the setup yet, and they already want to change it, and they don't even see what I'm saying here. They need to get this first, then later, if they want, modify it and look at other things.'

If someone wants to study the other, alternate approaches in here that's fine. If you like the BLT study it, trade it, post setups in here, that's great. If you want to work with me and learn my style, learn it first, then decide what to do with it, how to modify it, and so on. But it is hard on me as an instructor, and I am mostly referring here to my mentor students, whoever they are, to try to teach my style and combine it with aspects of roofer's methodology, and aspects of craft's methodology, and so on.

I would be happy to discuss another methodology once you have mine mastered, to the extent that I understand another's methodology, and what some possibilities are for incorporating some of the techniques into a 'Trading Plan', but I'd still think the original source is likely the best place for that information. I can always offer my viewpoint on how I may use that material, but that will always be my spin on it.

I have no idea how this post will go over. No one should be offended in any way. But, if I never say anything and let the forum go whatever way it goes, we can just not call it the KT forum, and it can become whatever it becomes. Or it can be the KT forum and I can make it clear that it can have two 'tracts' within it, one where I am trying to show my methodology, for my students and those that have come here specifically for that, and a second tract for those that want to post great trading ideas, as long as they are Fib, line, and pattern related. So far, the latter is what I have been trying to do.

I have been asked several times to start a foum just for mentor students, where the most proprietary things can be discussed, with no cloaked comments like 'my mentor students will understand this'. Then the mentor students can hang in there, and this forum here can be less KT specific. If it wasn't for all the additional work (this would be a forum hosted by me), I'd consider it.

Right here I went into another related topic, but so as to not hijack this thread, I bounced the idea over to its own topic, so you can pick up from this point here:

http://www.mypivots.com/Board/Topic/5438/1/crazy-kt-idea-mind-jim