Just $50 a day in the ES?
Hello,
I’m really REALLY trying to simplify my trading. Get in, in the morning for a few hours and be done for the day. I’m looking for a setup that I can pull just $50 dollars a day. I’m looking to trade 1 contract for a 1 point move on the S&P Mini’s. At this point I'm really looking for consistency. Simplicity is my goal. Can anyone help with that?
Thanks in Advance.
I’m really REALLY trying to simplify my trading. Get in, in the morning for a few hours and be done for the day. I’m looking for a setup that I can pull just $50 dollars a day. I’m looking to trade 1 contract for a 1 point move on the S&P Mini’s. At this point I'm really looking for consistency. Simplicity is my goal. Can anyone help with that?
Thanks in Advance.
The S&P eminis are not easy, you're trying to take money from the best traders in the world. Look at bonds, they move slower & pay very well, gold is $100 per point & easier than ES. Grains are probably the easiest, they trend for longer periods of time & are seasonal. Look at the different markets & decide which fits your style & personality, don't get hung up on the stockmarket if consistent money is your goal.
There are tons of setups here on mypivots, search the archives, the setups are there. Charter Joe's posts helped me the most. You might find other posts that help you more than Ch Joe's, it's different for everyone, find what works for you.
There are tons of setups here on mypivots, search the archives, the setups are there. Charter Joe's posts helped me the most. You might find other posts that help you more than Ch Joe's, it's different for everyone, find what works for you.
Good luck. No such thing as easy & simplified daily 1 point systems.
Well, budy, if it could be that easy, pulling $50 from 1 point move every or most of trades? Guess it would be extremely hard, if not impossible to do that. Plus, trading indexes???
I´ve been trading for about a year and a half. Until today, my learning process has cost me about €1800 (trading losses), plus about €1000 (books, etc). In the last 2 months, I made something I couldn´t do before - to make consistent profits (about €760, so I was €1040 to regain all the money I lost trading). I´ve learn more things in the mean time. The truth is I have learn much more things so far. Besides, since my acount is just €6000, I´ve start trading few contracts and to close small profits. This way I protect myself from big losses as I can slowly and gradually increase my trading acount.
From those €760 I made, €409 were profits of this month. The thing is, having just three days to end this month, I lost €400 just two hours ago (trading YM). Yes, I made mistakes I shouldn´t have done, although I didn´t expect the YM to rise that much! I´ve learn my lesson, believe me.
It´s hard to lose money we´ve made, but my main goal is still there - not to lose it at the end of the month! I´ve much to learn. Much, much to learn!
My point is: don´t expect to make (even)$50 every day you trade. If you don´t have the patient, preserverance and dedication to this world, you´ll find it harder, buddy!
Canis Lupus
I´ve been trading for about a year and a half. Until today, my learning process has cost me about €1800 (trading losses), plus about €1000 (books, etc). In the last 2 months, I made something I couldn´t do before - to make consistent profits (about €760, so I was €1040 to regain all the money I lost trading). I´ve learn more things in the mean time. The truth is I have learn much more things so far. Besides, since my acount is just €6000, I´ve start trading few contracts and to close small profits. This way I protect myself from big losses as I can slowly and gradually increase my trading acount.
From those €760 I made, €409 were profits of this month. The thing is, having just three days to end this month, I lost €400 just two hours ago (trading YM). Yes, I made mistakes I shouldn´t have done, although I didn´t expect the YM to rise that much! I´ve learn my lesson, believe me.
It´s hard to lose money we´ve made, but my main goal is still there - not to lose it at the end of the month! I´ve much to learn. Much, much to learn!
My point is: don´t expect to make (even)$50 every day you trade. If you don´t have the patient, preserverance and dedication to this world, you´ll find it harder, buddy!
Canis Lupus
To give you some perspective of what "just $50 a day" really means consider this fact about 1 point a day in the ES trading 1 contract:
Use the Day Trader Millionaire Calculator and enter the following values:
Starting Capital: $10,000
Capital base per contract: $5,000
Number of trades per day: 1
Commission: $5
Average points profit per trade: 1
Value of 1 point: $50
Calculate how long it will take you to become a millionaire. It will take you just over 2 years.
So to rephrase your question: "How do I become a millionaire in 2 years trading a few hours each morning?"
I'm not trying to be flippant but just point out how tough it is to get near this.
Use the Day Trader Millionaire Calculator and enter the following values:
Starting Capital: $10,000
Capital base per contract: $5,000
Number of trades per day: 1
Commission: $5
Average points profit per trade: 1
Value of 1 point: $50
Calculate how long it will take you to become a millionaire. It will take you just over 2 years.
So to rephrase your question: "How do I become a millionaire in 2 years trading a few hours each morning?"
I'm not trying to be flippant but just point out how tough it is to get near this.
When you buy shares, you can buy any number you please, even if it is just one share. In Futures, you buy a contract which will have a specific lot size depending on the stock.
Let's say you want to buy an Infosys Futures contract. This will comprise 100 shares. Or, you want to buy a HPCL Futures contract. This will be a lot of 650 shares.
In Futures, you buy a lot. The lot size is set for each futures contract and it differs from stock to stock.
Margin payment
When you buy a Futures contract, you don't pay the entire value of the contract but just the margin. This margin amount too is prescribed by the exchange.
Let's say you buy a HPCL Futures contract.
And the price of each HPCL share is Rs 311. This will amount to Rs 2,02,150 (Rs 311 x 650 shares).
You don't pay the entire amount of Rs 2,02,150. You only pay 15% to 20% of that amount and this is called the margin amount.
The margin depends on what the exchange sets for the day. Based on certain parameters, it declares the margin for each stock.
So the margin for Infosys will vary from, say, HPCL.
Let's say the margin for the HPCL Futures is 15%. So you end up just paying just Rs 30,322 (not Rs 2,02,150).
How you make or lose money
You purchased a HPCL Futures contract and the underlying price is Rs 311 per share.
Let's say, the next day it moves to Rs 312.
The difference is Rs 1 per share (312 -311)
You get a credit Rs 650 (Rs 1 per share x 650 shares).
The following day, it dips to Rs 310.
The difference is Rs 2 per share (312 - 310)
Since the price has dipped, Rs 1,300 (Rs 2 per share x 650 shares) is debited from your account.
This will go on till you sell the Futures contract or it expires (last Thursday of the month).
So, on a daily basis you make and lose money.
*
Why the bull run could turn in 2006
Why Futures are popular
No delivery
There is no delivery.
When you buy in the cash segment (where investors buy and sell any number of shares and hold them in demat accounts), the shares are delivered to you and sent to your demat account.
Over here, there is no delivery so you do not need a demat account.
Lower brokerage
The brokerage in Futures is much lower. It will be around 0.03% to 0.05% of the transaction. These are the rates given to regular investors. An occasional investor may end up paying up to 0.1% as brokerage.
In the cash segment, the brokerage will be more high........
Margin payment
When you buy shares in the cash segment, you have to make the entire payment to your broker. Let's say you buy 650 HPCL shares for Rs 311 per share. You end up paying Rs 2,02,150.
Within two days, you will have to make the full payment to your broker.
In Futures, you just pay the margin, not the entire amount.
Can effectively short sell
When you sell shares without owning them, it is known as short selling. You would do so if you believe that the price of the stock is going to drop. This way, you sell it at a higher rate and buy it at a lower rate later.
With Futures, you do not have to square your transaction at the end of the day. You can square the transaction whenever you want or wait till it expires on the last Thursday of the month. But, in the cash segment, you have to square your transaction by the end of the day, so you can short sell just for a day.
*
Stock picking is an art, not a science
Where the cash segment scores
Price differential
It is worth noting that the price of the shares in the cash segment is mostly lower than the Futures price.
So, if it is available for Rs 311 in the Futures segment, you should get it for Rs 308 in the cash segment. Though, on occasions it may even be slightly higher.
Tax
In Futures, you pay a tax of 33% on the your profit.
In equity, it is a flat rate of 10% (short term capital gains) if you sell within a year and no tax if you sell after a year (long term capital gains).
Flexibility in purchases
In the cash segment, you can pick up however many shares you want starting from just one share.
In Futures, you cannot buy less than the lot size prescribed.
If you want to buy more you can, but they must be in multiples of the lot. So, you can buy one or two contracts.
Risk in Futures is higher
If you are an investor who wants to buy shares and hold on to it, you should invest in the cash segment.
Since Futures is a trading tool, the risk is also much higher.
Let's say the shares of Infosys are going at Rs 2,700 per share.
And, you buy 100 shares in the cash segment. You end up paying Rs 2,70,000.
The price dips to Rs 2,200. If you sell the shares at this rate, you make a loss of 18.5%
Now let's say you purchase an Infosys Futures at the underlying share price being the same.
You pay the 20% margin of Rs 54,000.
Let's say the price dips to Rs 2,200.
You have to pay out Rs 50,000.
Since you invested only Rs 54,000, you have incurred a loss of 92.5%.
Hence, your losses can be much higher in Futures.
Let's say you want to buy an Infosys Futures contract. This will comprise 100 shares. Or, you want to buy a HPCL Futures contract. This will be a lot of 650 shares.
In Futures, you buy a lot. The lot size is set for each futures contract and it differs from stock to stock.
Margin payment
When you buy a Futures contract, you don't pay the entire value of the contract but just the margin. This margin amount too is prescribed by the exchange.
Let's say you buy a HPCL Futures contract.
And the price of each HPCL share is Rs 311. This will amount to Rs 2,02,150 (Rs 311 x 650 shares).
You don't pay the entire amount of Rs 2,02,150. You only pay 15% to 20% of that amount and this is called the margin amount.
The margin depends on what the exchange sets for the day. Based on certain parameters, it declares the margin for each stock.
So the margin for Infosys will vary from, say, HPCL.
Let's say the margin for the HPCL Futures is 15%. So you end up just paying just Rs 30,322 (not Rs 2,02,150).
How you make or lose money
You purchased a HPCL Futures contract and the underlying price is Rs 311 per share.
Let's say, the next day it moves to Rs 312.
The difference is Rs 1 per share (312 -311)
You get a credit Rs 650 (Rs 1 per share x 650 shares).
The following day, it dips to Rs 310.
The difference is Rs 2 per share (312 - 310)
Since the price has dipped, Rs 1,300 (Rs 2 per share x 650 shares) is debited from your account.
This will go on till you sell the Futures contract or it expires (last Thursday of the month).
So, on a daily basis you make and lose money.
*
Why the bull run could turn in 2006
Why Futures are popular
No delivery
There is no delivery.
When you buy in the cash segment (where investors buy and sell any number of shares and hold them in demat accounts), the shares are delivered to you and sent to your demat account.
Over here, there is no delivery so you do not need a demat account.
Lower brokerage
The brokerage in Futures is much lower. It will be around 0.03% to 0.05% of the transaction. These are the rates given to regular investors. An occasional investor may end up paying up to 0.1% as brokerage.
In the cash segment, the brokerage will be more high........
Margin payment
When you buy shares in the cash segment, you have to make the entire payment to your broker. Let's say you buy 650 HPCL shares for Rs 311 per share. You end up paying Rs 2,02,150.
Within two days, you will have to make the full payment to your broker.
In Futures, you just pay the margin, not the entire amount.
Can effectively short sell
When you sell shares without owning them, it is known as short selling. You would do so if you believe that the price of the stock is going to drop. This way, you sell it at a higher rate and buy it at a lower rate later.
With Futures, you do not have to square your transaction at the end of the day. You can square the transaction whenever you want or wait till it expires on the last Thursday of the month. But, in the cash segment, you have to square your transaction by the end of the day, so you can short sell just for a day.
*
Stock picking is an art, not a science
Where the cash segment scores
Price differential
It is worth noting that the price of the shares in the cash segment is mostly lower than the Futures price.
So, if it is available for Rs 311 in the Futures segment, you should get it for Rs 308 in the cash segment. Though, on occasions it may even be slightly higher.
Tax
In Futures, you pay a tax of 33% on the your profit.
In equity, it is a flat rate of 10% (short term capital gains) if you sell within a year and no tax if you sell after a year (long term capital gains).
Flexibility in purchases
In the cash segment, you can pick up however many shares you want starting from just one share.
In Futures, you cannot buy less than the lot size prescribed.
If you want to buy more you can, but they must be in multiples of the lot. So, you can buy one or two contracts.
Risk in Futures is higher
If you are an investor who wants to buy shares and hold on to it, you should invest in the cash segment.
Since Futures is a trading tool, the risk is also much higher.
Let's say the shares of Infosys are going at Rs 2,700 per share.
And, you buy 100 shares in the cash segment. You end up paying Rs 2,70,000.
The price dips to Rs 2,200. If you sell the shares at this rate, you make a loss of 18.5%
Now let's say you purchase an Infosys Futures at the underlying share price being the same.
You pay the 20% margin of Rs 54,000.
Let's say the price dips to Rs 2,200.
You have to pay out Rs 50,000.
Since you invested only Rs 54,000, you have incurred a loss of 92.5%.
Hence, your losses can be much higher in Futures.
There is a program out there, sorry I don't remember the name but you can probably find it doing some google searches.
It only trades the 1st half hour and mostly is done within the 1st minute or two after the bell. All their setups are of the breakout nature and their goals are around 1 point what you said you're looking for.
Don't know their success rate but it does seem to fit what your asking for, simple, 1 point, and done quickly.
Don't even know if they're still in biz but try googling keywords like "trade the 1st 15 minutes of the day" "trade the opening bell" things like that and you might be able to find them.
Don't know what they cost either but if I remember they do have some setups they give away for free and hold back what they think are their best to try and get you to pay.
If you can't find them get a hold of me and I will tell you what I remember about their setups.
It only trades the 1st half hour and mostly is done within the 1st minute or two after the bell. All their setups are of the breakout nature and their goals are around 1 point what you said you're looking for.
Don't know their success rate but it does seem to fit what your asking for, simple, 1 point, and done quickly.
Don't even know if they're still in biz but try googling keywords like "trade the 1st 15 minutes of the day" "trade the opening bell" things like that and you might be able to find them.
Don't know what they cost either but if I remember they do have some setups they give away for free and hold back what they think are their best to try and get you to pay.
If you can't find them get a hold of me and I will tell you what I remember about their setups.
According to the brilliant mathematician Jim Kane's article ES Fun Math Facts, your $50 a day goal = 500% annual return on a $2K margin account (assuming 200 trading days in a year).
$50 a day = 500% annual return
Can you produce 500% annual return each year ?
$50 a day = 500% annual return
Can you produce 500% annual return each year ?
Hi
The Best Time to trade is first 15 to 30 mins as soon as the market opens eg s&p opens at 9.30 nyt so if you trade between 9.30 to 10 that will be really good ,rest of the day you can chase only when you get the best shot of your strategy
sanjay
The Best Time to trade is first 15 to 30 mins as soon as the market opens eg s&p opens at 9.30 nyt so if you trade between 9.30 to 10 that will be really good ,rest of the day you can chase only when you get the best shot of your strategy
sanjay
The odds are the same whether you try to "consistently" make $50, or $1 or $500 or $5000 a day trading. The odds are exactly the same, regardless of how much money you put up or how large or small your trades are. So it's not a matter of how much money you will, it's a matter of whether or not you can consistently and over the long term have greater gains than losses. And that's really the million dollar question, isn't it?
Consistently is the key word, and it is also the word that only means something until it no longer means it! Let's say you "consistently" make money in the market for 1 year, and then on day 366 you lose all your gains from the previous year. At that point you are no longer "consistently" making money.
Consistently is the key word, and it is also the word that only means something until it no longer means it! Let's say you "consistently" make money in the market for 1 year, and then on day 366 you lose all your gains from the previous year. At that point you are no longer "consistently" making money.
In a study of the most successful High Frequency Trading firms trading the ES, the average daily profit generated was $1.91 per contract. The average daily gross profit per day was $45,300. The average trade size was 5 contracts per trade. Interestingly, HFT's made up 53% of the daily trading volume in the ES during the study period.
The term "most successful" meaning the most consistently profitable HFT firms during the time studied. Oh and by the way, the average trading account liquidity of these firms was $10 Million per account.
Let's use these statistics to see how a trader can make $50 per day trading the ES. First we will assume the trader can actually match the daily average profit of $1.91 per contract over the course of a year. In this case the trader will need to trade at least 26 contracts a day in some form or fashion to reach the average daily goal. Also, keep in mind the $1.91 profit per contract is an average, there were months where the HFT's produced an average profit of less than 10 cents per contract for a month. So there will be days, weeks and even months where the $50 a day goal will not be achieved. Now to funding the trading account: Let's assume the $50 a day ES trader uses the average trade size of 5 contracts per trade, backing each contract with the current exchange margin of $3850 per contract. The minimum account size starting out would need to be $20,000.
In the study, the biggest losing trader category in the ES was, you guessed it, small retail trading accounts. The small retailer trader category consistently lost money to every other category.
The term "most successful" meaning the most consistently profitable HFT firms during the time studied. Oh and by the way, the average trading account liquidity of these firms was $10 Million per account.
Let's use these statistics to see how a trader can make $50 per day trading the ES. First we will assume the trader can actually match the daily average profit of $1.91 per contract over the course of a year. In this case the trader will need to trade at least 26 contracts a day in some form or fashion to reach the average daily goal. Also, keep in mind the $1.91 profit per contract is an average, there were months where the HFT's produced an average profit of less than 10 cents per contract for a month. So there will be days, weeks and even months where the $50 a day goal will not be achieved. Now to funding the trading account: Let's assume the $50 a day ES trader uses the average trade size of 5 contracts per trade, backing each contract with the current exchange margin of $3850 per contract. The minimum account size starting out would need to be $20,000.
In the study, the biggest losing trader category in the ES was, you guessed it, small retail trading accounts. The small retailer trader category consistently lost money to every other category.
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Copyright © 2004-2023, MyPivots. All rights reserved.