Where can I get a small practice trading account?
Hey everyone, I've been browsing this website for about a month and I've decided to make an account and become an active member. I'm really interested in the ES, but right now I don't have the money to trade it. Can anyone point me in a direction where I could get some practice with a small amount of money, approx 10k.
Thanks
Thanks
Originally posted by CharterJoe
yeah Jim, they let your trade for free its part of their "no trader left behind" obamanation abomination manifesto.
with a 10k account trading a 10k lot it would be close to 100:100 margin
Ah, I guess I misinterpreted what you meant. You meant he could trade his account with no leverage, by putting up full cash for the position, and I read it as a zero margin requirement. I figured if so sign me up, I'll trade a few billion with a zero margin requirement, let me at 'em.
Originally posted by XPT GiovanniONLY a broker can give you a live-data feed. What ninja has on their site gives canned data. Try again with the link i provided.
I tried ninjatrader but I could never connect to the live feed, it'd always give me a simulated one. I'll have to mess around with it some more I guess. I might have to figure that out and join the Skype room, just to get a feel for how it all works.
I don't think paper trading is good for much more than backtesting, learning a new platform, or a beginner learning how to make trades. I can make 100% a day trading anything on paper. but trade it with a few contracts and a good day is 2%. So don't spend much time paper trading because its worthless. I have talked to people who paper traded for 2 years and was consistently profitable and traded worse than my cousin's fist month. Paper traders whom are profitable find out there is a painful new world that awaits them.
Instead trade something, get that rush and learn to control it. Trade something 50 shares of SPY, .1k-10k lots of Eur/Usd. What newbies need is time in the market and 10k in the ES want give you much time MAYBE 2 months. Where 10k in SPY or FX or even fixed income futures (5yr) should last a year maybe longer. Your most valuable tool is time in the market.
Instead trade something, get that rush and learn to control it. Trade something 50 shares of SPY, .1k-10k lots of Eur/Usd. What newbies need is time in the market and 10k in the ES want give you much time MAYBE 2 months. Where 10k in SPY or FX or even fixed income futures (5yr) should last a year maybe longer. Your most valuable tool is time in the market.
Very well said Joe. Great advice.
Originally posted by CharterJoe
I don't think paper trading is good for much more than backtesting, learning a new platform, or a beginner learning how to make trades. I .
in my honest opinion, Knowing the a platform inside and out, is the key before you start trading. The features that a platform has will not make you a better trader, but it will allow your trading in a smoother manner. You will rely less on technical support as a self-directed trader.
Also, knowing the platform features will help you determine if this is the platform you want to use in the long-run. There are excellent platforms for day trading, and then there are some that are excellent for positions trading. I am an avid learner of each platform released, and I can tell you that they all have unique features from automation to visual display of execution that can appeal to different comfort levels.
Joe,
As you know, I'm on the opposite side of the coin as you are as far as my thoughts on sim trading. This comes from my work with students, which tends to be with limited numbers of people and long and ongoing, usually over years, as opposed to the 'quicky' training most people offer to large numbers of people. My opinion is based on my experience working with those students, and my own work.
With that refresher on the background that led me to this conclusion, I have some thoughts, as I sense what may be a tremendous opportunity for us. It depends, I think, to a great extent on if you can make that 100% in sim trading only via 'scalping' (which I know isn't your basic style), or otherwise. As I mention in my article on sim trading, the fill in sim may be off by say a tick or two per side many times, and that may be all the 'profits' that are being made in sim via scalping, and hence there really are no profits, as one finds out when trading real money.
If, for example, one is trading for say a ten or fifteen point ES move, and are consistently hitting those, or trading a stock with a hold for a week or two and the move is say $2, $4, $10 (think AAPL), then the sim fill off by 1-2 ticks on the ES or off by 5 cents on the stock has essentially no effect on the net profits, and the move to real should be very close to sim.
Here's my point. I spend a lot of time, and I feel I have a lot of experience (due to my training approach) in determining the differences between a long series of sim trades and real trades. I have students working sim until they have worked out the endless 'bugs' in their approach to the methodology. Then they move to trading very small money. As I have said in the article, what is the point to trading real money when one is making mistakes in what they are doing, they don't have the skills down yet.
When 'everything changes' as they go to real money, we go over the extensive journals (many pages each, with screens shots of each step, that we have for every single trade, sim and real), and look for where the differences are. My job is to figure out what has changed, and get that back on track. Is it psychological, is it a sim issue (rare in my experience, because I don't have a scalping methodology, hence 'very close fills' and their difference between real fills, I feel, are insignificant to the net results in the bigger picture), is it a change in approach, and if so, where, and so on.
My job is to get them back to trading exactly the same in real as in sim. With my methodology my experience is when this is accomplished, the results are startlingly close between real and sim. That's just my opinion, my experience. Here's where I am sensing an opportunity for us.
If you can do this 100% per day by some means other than scalps, such as any technique that catches longer swings within a given day, or holds a day or two for those swings, I can work one-on-one with you with your sim logs and discussion between us as to what you did and why, and then we can try it with real money, and I can bring to the table what I consider my vast experience in studying differences between real and sim, and together we may be able to bring the real in line with the sim, and if so, we may have a huge money making opportunity for us, which, if this works, we can structure a vehicle where we can legally share the profits.
Let me know if you have any interest in this, as I see a potential fit here between your what might be extraordinary trading potential and my skills to get that from 100% per day sim to close to that in real money trading. I hope you get as exciting by this proposal as I am, as I really smell some big potential here if you can do those big returns outside of scalping techniques. (And in case you or anyone is wondering, this is a 100% serious post and completely serious proposal.)
As you know, I'm on the opposite side of the coin as you are as far as my thoughts on sim trading. This comes from my work with students, which tends to be with limited numbers of people and long and ongoing, usually over years, as opposed to the 'quicky' training most people offer to large numbers of people. My opinion is based on my experience working with those students, and my own work.
With that refresher on the background that led me to this conclusion, I have some thoughts, as I sense what may be a tremendous opportunity for us. It depends, I think, to a great extent on if you can make that 100% in sim trading only via 'scalping' (which I know isn't your basic style), or otherwise. As I mention in my article on sim trading, the fill in sim may be off by say a tick or two per side many times, and that may be all the 'profits' that are being made in sim via scalping, and hence there really are no profits, as one finds out when trading real money.
If, for example, one is trading for say a ten or fifteen point ES move, and are consistently hitting those, or trading a stock with a hold for a week or two and the move is say $2, $4, $10 (think AAPL), then the sim fill off by 1-2 ticks on the ES or off by 5 cents on the stock has essentially no effect on the net profits, and the move to real should be very close to sim.
Here's my point. I spend a lot of time, and I feel I have a lot of experience (due to my training approach) in determining the differences between a long series of sim trades and real trades. I have students working sim until they have worked out the endless 'bugs' in their approach to the methodology. Then they move to trading very small money. As I have said in the article, what is the point to trading real money when one is making mistakes in what they are doing, they don't have the skills down yet.
When 'everything changes' as they go to real money, we go over the extensive journals (many pages each, with screens shots of each step, that we have for every single trade, sim and real), and look for where the differences are. My job is to figure out what has changed, and get that back on track. Is it psychological, is it a sim issue (rare in my experience, because I don't have a scalping methodology, hence 'very close fills' and their difference between real fills, I feel, are insignificant to the net results in the bigger picture), is it a change in approach, and if so, where, and so on.
My job is to get them back to trading exactly the same in real as in sim. With my methodology my experience is when this is accomplished, the results are startlingly close between real and sim. That's just my opinion, my experience. Here's where I am sensing an opportunity for us.
If you can do this 100% per day by some means other than scalps, such as any technique that catches longer swings within a given day, or holds a day or two for those swings, I can work one-on-one with you with your sim logs and discussion between us as to what you did and why, and then we can try it with real money, and I can bring to the table what I consider my vast experience in studying differences between real and sim, and together we may be able to bring the real in line with the sim, and if so, we may have a huge money making opportunity for us, which, if this works, we can structure a vehicle where we can legally share the profits.
Let me know if you have any interest in this, as I see a potential fit here between your what might be extraordinary trading potential and my skills to get that from 100% per day sim to close to that in real money trading. I hope you get as exciting by this proposal as I am, as I really smell some big potential here if you can do those big returns outside of scalping techniques. (And in case you or anyone is wondering, this is a 100% serious post and completely serious proposal.)
Originally posted by CharterJoe
I don't think paper trading is good for much more than backtesting, learning a new platform, or a beginner learning how to make trades. I can make 100% a day trading anything on paper. but trade it with a few contracts and a good day is 2%. So don't spend much time paper trading because its worthless. I have talked to people who paper traded for 2 years and was consistently profitable and traded worse than my cousin's fist month. Paper traders whom are profitable find out there is a painful new world that awaits them.
Instead trade something, get that rush and learn to control it. Trade something 50 shares of SPY, .1k-10k lots of Eur/Usd. What newbies need is time in the market and 10k in the ES want give you much time MAYBE 2 months. Where 10k in SPY or FX or even fixed income futures (5yr) should last a year maybe longer. Your most valuable tool is time in the market.
Originally posted by Mattz1
Originally posted by XPT GiovanniONLY a broker can give you a live-data feed. What ninja has on their site gives canned data. Try again with the link i provided.
I tried ninjatrader but I could never connect to the live feed, it'd always give me a simulated one. I'll have to mess around with it some more I guess. I might have to figure that out and join the Skype room, just to get a feel for how it all works.
Oops, I see now. Thanks! This should keep me occupied.
i think all the future brokers provides this as Able World Trading is also
. some brokers provide for 15 days or 1 month because of live data feed
. some brokers provide for 15 days or 1 month because of live data feed
Ten thousand dollars is enough to trade the ES. Since you are new, I suggest taking a little time to paper trade. Keep your loses within 1.5% on each trade. Set your stop loss limit. That would be equivalent to $150 or three ES points.
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