Does anyone really make money trading futures?

Does anyone really make money trading futures?

I am just wondering.

I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.

I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.

For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.

I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.

Thanks in advance for any response.

Welcome on-board Shawn MP.

Originally posted by Shaun MP

Can I just say that I'm only up to page 5...

You ain't seen nothing yet. You have no idea what is in store for you later... :-) Remember I said this, and look for my posts.

Originally posted by jimkane

Originally posted by Shaun MP

Can I just say that I'm only up to page 5...

You ain't seen nothing yet. You have no idea what is in store for you later... :-) Remember I said this, and look for my posts.

I had a bit of a look through your site but I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the information at the moment. I'm sort of breaking it down into a few hours a night trying to chip away at the various articles and videos around so I take it in.

A month ago I nearly invested 8 grand into an Australian company teaching to trade e-minis. I'm glad I didn't as I've discovered the market is more complex than what was made out and I'd much rather put in the hours and years learning the right way through pure time, experience, mistakes and success than only learning one very basic and possibly unreliable strategy that will forever limit my understanding and potential to trade the market.

I came across this forum just in the nick of time.

Shaun,

Thanks for looking over my site. When I said you haven't seen anything yet and look for my posts, I meant in this topic, as I was one of the most prolific posters as it evolved. This thread, and it's content, should be in a historic archive somewhere. I say that not because I wrote a lot of it, but because of what was captured, the ideas, the give and take, the thoughts contained herein.

As far as my website, make sure you read all the free articles, as they contain a lot of basic concepts and thoughts. After that you can work your way through as many of the free commentary (283 at last count, I think) as you see fit to. I've put a lot of work into making it a great free resource for people. I couldn't agree more with your approach and viewpoint as far as one quicky, learned in a weekend technique vs. a more deep understanding, but, then again, that's been my philosophy since the beginning, so I'm biased.

Welcome to the MyPivots Forum Shaun ...

Jim Kane is one of the few people in this business of trading education that I recommend listening to. We are very fortunate to have the benefits of his ongoing contributions here at the forum.

Another resource I recommend to new traders is to read the book titled "Trading in the Zone." written by Mark Douglas.


[Admin Edit: link to book added]

Thanks mate I'll check that one out. I've also ordered "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator" which everyone seems to talk about so I'll have a couple of good books to put me to sleep at night for the next little while. :)


[Admin Edit: link to book added]

Reminiscences is one of the classics. Here are some others that I consider vital to give your a good back ground to trading: Trading Classics

You can also read Reminiscense online here: Reminiscences of a Stock Operator

And here is a link to a whole bunch of trading books. Some good some not so good.
Trading Books - click on a link under the category to narrow down your focus.

I also agree with pt_emini about Trading in the Zone - it's very good. You can skip his first book The Disciplined Trader as the second is much better.

I'll tell a story here that I have told a few times on my website. Most people think I'm exaggerating, or that I'm just plain silly (goofy in the head?). I started reading Reminiscences of a Stock Operator when I first came to trading, almost twelve years ago. I liked it so much I reread it. I did this several times, and every time I got something new out of it. I then decided I would keep reading it until I stopped getting something new out of it. I was reading it over the course of about a month per read. That amounted to about ten pages per night before going to bed. I'm now on read 142 I think. Yes, I am still reading it. And every single time I get something new from it. I've kept my promise to myself to not stop until I get all the way through without picking up a new concept or way of looking at things.

Now, you say, how can this be? Jim, you must be real slow on the uptake. Not the sharpest tool in the shed. Yeah, that could be true. Or it could be that not only is there a lot more in this book than most realize, but also that as I grow and learn as a trader, I have more background and experience to understand what I am reading. More to relate the concepts to, more depth to call upon in my understanding and comprehension. All I can say is that every key concept and idea that I use or would consider using in my 'Trading Plan' is in there (I don't mean specifically my trading techniques, but the trading concepts). And until I stop getting useful information from the book, I'm going to keep on reading it. And I'm serious, this isn't a joke post.

Originally posted by pt_emini

...Jim Kane is one of the few people in this business of trading education that I recommend listening to. We are very fortunate to have the benefits of his ongoing contributions here at the forum...

I can't tell you how much that means to me, PT, to have someone like you willing to make such a statement. When someone has a lot of intrinsic motivation, and they see something like this, it can really make them feel like what they are doing is worthwhile, and that others 'get' and appreciate the point of it all. Thanks.

The following is a post made in another room:

"I have made 53 trades today (ES), and have profit of $12.50".
---------------------------------------------------------------------

A pro making 53 trades is trading. A new person making 53 trades
such as this person, is gambling... imo

I consistently profit from futures/futures options, but it took me a long time to figure out the best way for me to do so.

While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.

Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.

I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.

Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.

That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.

A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.

-PDG