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ES 10-06-08

buying here...
Originally posted by koolblue

Joe how do u calculate those square of 9s? THEY DO SEEM UNCANNY!


I'll let Joe answer in more detail. However, various posts by Joe earlier in different threads offer clues. One of them is as below.
"You can take ganns calender s/r and subtract sq root .146 from 1275 and that was 1264.5 which we couldn't trade below it either...."

As Joe suggests elsewhere, use a factor of 0.25. Play with these numbers and you will arrive with the various "square of nine" numbers. In other words,
(a) take the square root of say, 1009 (which is one of the "square of nine" numbers; use this as a reference)
(b) add 0.25
(c) square the result obtained from (b)
(d) round the number obtained in (c)

This will give you the next number above 1009, which is 1025 and so on.

To get the number below 1009, in step (b), subtract (instead of "add") 0.25. The result will be 993 and so on.

Also, another post in the same thread above that takes you to a URL that has some ready-made numbers...




Please feel free to correct my understanding of this. For daily numbers do you use the "Open" value for a given day? TIA.
ok, thanks , stockster!
Hey Blue thanks for the info. What did you mean by adjusting the chart? If you don't mind me asking.
Originally posted by koolblue

Shady, my 1 min. are set at 27 priod ema and 2.5 deviations, my 5 min. are 15 period and 2.75 deviations... i adjust every other week or so to contain most of the chart data points

Originally posted by popstocks

I forget who asked, but I checked the daily chart, it was a 90% down day about an hour ago, but at the close it is no longer a 90% day.

Looked again and now it is showing as a 90% day, I guess the uvol and dvol was still being tallied or something.... go figure.
Shady , if after a week or so i see the price continually overruns the boll. band by lets say 3 points , then instead of 2.75 i may set it at 3.00 or 3.25 deviations to contain more price action.Iguess its like treating my boll. bands like a mov. avg envelope adjusting for volitility or lack of it!(i always use increments of .25 however)

Thats the correct way to calculate sq of nine, it would be a very fortunate exercise to memorize all numbers as sometimes they are missed if they are just written down. I cannot tell you how to calculate dated sq of nine since they change every calender day and is rather complicated, unless someone shows a genuinely truly interest then I would take the time to do so. I think marie showed some interest in them....
1009 and all the other sq nine will never change and are very important when they haven't been touched in weeks. Here is another way of calculating instead of starting with 1, start with a major high/ 1440 from 5/19 some numbers are 1256, 1240, 1220, 1205, 1186, 1171, 1153, 1137, 1118,....1084, 1070, 1052, 1020, 1006. I know these seem clustered but keep in mind the VIX is 52, so the market doesn't usually rip through these in a normal market. Another interesting thing is that 1440 was a dated sq nine for that day.
Also you can sq price with time...we take the high at 1440 and come up with sq of nine numbers for days. When the markets line up with price on these dates tops and bottoms form ex...46 (sq nine number) "trading" days after 1440 the markets the market hit a high of 1313.5 the sq of nine with 1440 in the middle was 1312 :))) You can go back to that thread date and see the conversation I had with SPQR I told him that the uptrend was over about 8 points from the high at 1313 and that we were going to take out the 1200 low in the next month.
Also another ex is you can take the extreme high of 1576 date and 155 days later it hit 1440 which was time sq with price...5/19 was

1) the dated sq nine.
2) the HOD was sq nine with the high of 1576 placed at the start instead of 1.
3) 155 days after high which is sq nine.

Another ex using the high 1313.5 sq nine numbers was 1008 and 40 days later (40 is sq nine) which was today price meet with time.
But I am shorter term trader and I have found the best method for me is to use dated sq nine and sq nine just like you would a pivot point and for some reason the ones that are PRIMES are more effective. I am 100% sure that you could take the tiniest account and scalp the ES with sq nine and some other indicator like $TICK and make a better living than a doctor and much better hours.
I got stopped at B/E on last campaign at 43.75 Joe ( actual fill of 42 even...).....big net down day for me but I'm trying to build a position with three longs from 27.50 and three from 37.50...both high volume areas......what made this different for me is that I entered buy stop orders while we were below u know I normally fade and just go market.......

I also need much work at holding trades longer but this is not the time to start too many experiments for me with the volatility....I like your use of options though.....and will work on setting up my IRT charts .....I anticipate some busy times once the third one comes along ( child) and options may be the way to go so I can cut down on active trading.....only for a few months though...hence my darlings experiment thread

Targets: for me exist up at that 1075 zone ( high volume), 1102...(overnight open) and with a bit of luck the 1144......if I win the lottery of trading I'll get the gap at 1212 but I'll probably be out of ammo by then...glad all survived well today...biggest losing day in 5 years for lots to review for me.....

Originally posted by CharterJoe

I took a break from the afternoon session and WOW!! My 105 calls are positive almost a point and my 110's from Friday that I avg down are almost in the black. Unreal, I love options....I see pop and kool had a good day. bruce hang in there you'll get it back, as I am sure I will as well....GS came flying back almost up what a day

You "could" figure them down so close to where there only pennies apart. But thats not the way they are used by me and also Gann. Here are the numbers I use, these are about 19 points apart, some more some less....


Some common sense should be don't trade these alone mix them with something good like $TICK, Market profile or RSI, If a market is doing a breakaway gap don't expect much on a counter-trend trade instead go with the trend after the number is broken. Treat them like everlasting pivots....

A good ex for a scalper would be the ES right now 10-7 at 2:30 the ES hit a high of 1042.5 thats close enough to my sq nine at the same time the 1 min RSI is overbought and the $TICKS are at the highest levels of the day, so it falls and falls to where? the next sq nine 1025 at that time the $TICK is reading -1000 time to get out of the short and go long. I have never seen them go from sq nine to sq nine so fast 2 years ago it could have been up to 3-4 days before hitting another sq nine and we would play the ES to death off that single S/R number using only a few other simple tools.

P.S. I trade front month until there is less than 5 days of time left then I switch to the next month and I only trade those exactly in the money.