the ''morning memory'' that joed tells at his site was told me a decade ago. joed lived in hawaii and invited traders to visit with the stipulation that they trade in front of him.the young man stood out...he had gann lines across chart... and a simple time indicator below... that was it... he was the best trade joed had ever witnessed....because he only did exactly what he was told to do....

Well, I've started on that process based on what you showed, and you know me, pounding out a few thousand charts is like Tiger Woods hitting a few buckets of balls, not a real big deal. But, as you said about suspending the way one thinks, I need to more suspend how I am trying to think joed thinks (which I know I have wrong) than I need to suspend how I think. I'm so trying to figure this out that I'm messing up my chances to grasp his ideas. I hope I can do it, but I just always feel like I used to feel listening to Greenspan talk to congress. 'What the hell did he just say???' I'll keep hammering the charts...

P.S. Thanks for not blowing up at me

Originally posted by roofer

'' the back ground is missing''' you are correct there...during the time of tim morge's 2001-2 forum and in earlier forums joed was a very active participant and instructor, sharing what he was doing...but some things happened and he left the public side of the internet back then..... i think he just wants to make another attempt..if any trader is able to suspend the way he thinks and can look at a few thousand charts ( not 10 , not 20,, jim you and i both know those kind) in the light of what i took the time to show, joe's work may be seen....

another way to look at it. there was a time i did not know all the fib.. i am grateful i found your work.. there was a time medianlines were not part of your work.. you expressed your thoughts in the introduction to your last book. i tried in the post here to explain how i see another traders work....in my trades that fail, when i go back and review them, the case is that i am a few hours early 95% of the time.that '' being early''can be seen in the vast majority of the cases by not waiting for time to set up and then finding the geometry there...

jim i know you will see it.remember that i have also trained my way of seeing to watch the interplay of the indicators....the patterns i see there are as clear to me as ALL your abcd's are to you.i see over and over AS A CONTINUATION PATTERN (key to your work) on the hourly where the cci10 gets back in green, the sto gets back to 80, but the cci 40 canot even get off the floor, much less make it back to the 0 line... right then and there i expect to see geometry.. it is usually there...

failure or success?back in early september of 2001, joed was on the morge forum daily pounding the table for an important low, showing chart after chart. but he kept saying one thing... forcast time (which for joe also includes amplitude of price move) was not aligning with market time based on the way i showed.... he said a number of times'' something is really wrong, the dow should be 2000 points lower''it was keeping him awake at night... he had just never seen such a divergence and could not imagine a 2000 point drop in a matter of weeks in the dow.and then 9/11 and the dow traded 2000 points lower.

Another reason for Joed to have wanted to see someone trade live, is to see how well they could explain their method. Some traders know their system but can't explain it to others well enough for them to be successful at it. So Joed might have wanted to watch a trader trade live while he asked them questions to see how well they knew their own system, what made it worked, how subjective, and how learnable it was from a motivated student.

Jim would have passed with flying colors. He can paint a clear word picture using his trader talk of how he trades so that anyone would be satisfied even if all they saw was a naked chart.

As far as Bingo goes, I worked on a nationwide Bingo system. Some of those Bingo players could guess what the next balls would be even though the programming (done by someone else) was presumably random generated by the program. Some would spend 15 hours a day in front of the screen and really could recognize certain patterns. Kinda sad but then us traders do the same don't we.

The importance of collecting large numbers of samples to understand why something you think will work doesn't....and doesn't again....can't be overstated. Knowing that there are things to know beyond what one knows now, taking it as a challenge to do better work and not as a personal issue, is part of what separates a true winner from a loser in life. I don't have much to add to this thread, except to say that I find it fascinating and stimulating, and that I feel honored to have the opportunity to learn from roofer and jim.

When I think I know a setup, am early, and see it blow up, I always think it is because there I have not yet done the work that will allow me to understand why. An example is the failed setup of gld at the .886 not long ago...even though there was a tradeable move, the setup failed....not long after I posted a 5 minute chart showing the failure to reach the median line indicated by the setup, what looked at first like it could be a retest at the upper line, price crawling along the upper line in a way that taken together with the failure told me there was a higher high. I have seen this a number of times....it will take me a long time to collect enough of them to see for myself exactly what is in play when this happens....but it's all part of a process. Like incorporating the teachings of roofer and jim into my thinking.

In my short experience here, I can already say that the level of discourse at this forum is unmatched and most refreshing.

Originally posted by roofer

another way to look at it. there was a time i did not know all the fib.. i am grateful i found your work.. there was a time medianlines were not part of your work.. you expressed your thoughts in the introduction to your last book. i tried in the post here to explain how i see another traders work....in my trades that fail, when i go back and review them, the case is that i am a few hours early 95% of the time.that '' being early''can be seen in the vast majority of the cases by not waiting for time to set up and then finding the geometry there...

joe is beginning to fill in some blanks... answers to questions jim had......

if anyone is wondering what those yellow dots are on joed's charts, they are important times of day for joe.

I was wondering about that. I was also wondering what the heck those purple lines are that form the sideways 'V' on the last FXE chart?

they are gann lines

Okay, well, I'm not exactly sure what to do here at this point. I know one thing for sure, all this has to end here. We need to get back to discussing and showing charts and trading related material. I do not want anyone leaving because they think this is a Kane Trading only forum. I don't want this to be any excuse for roofer to say he's leaving now because he doesn't belong here.

Let's get back on track, and keep doing what we have been doing lately. It's been great, and it is going to stay that way. This is not 'out there', and it isn't going to devolve into that. It hasn't in all these years, and won't now. I am going to lock this topic down, no more posts. Any desire to further this topic must be done via personal correspondence (which I strongly advise against). Any other topics opened or comments on this will be deleted, and I won't be happy with those who started them, or continued them. I'm sorry if this leaves anyone feeling cut off, or anything like that, but this direction gets squashed right now.