Phew, I don't know about you guys, but I am glad to close out last week's topic, despite my agreement with tomo, it was some great material.

Let's crank this week up, I think the action is going to be awesome, if last week is any indication. I'll start, like I did last week, with my bearish hopes, and my bullish realities. Of course this won't happen, but I can dream, can't I? Sometimes I think that is all I have left, the dreams. The market will never do what I want it to, as far as the bad guys. On the other hand, maybe I'll get my wish, and the bad guys will, in fact, be behind it, instead of it crushing them to dust. I recall that old saw that goes like this: 'If you bet the sun will blow up, and it does, what do you win???'

http://eminiaddict.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2012crash_001.png

Okay, we are 'deep in the heart of Texas' on this second area. I don't think it will hold, but let's see.

If it goes (gives way), I think it will want that 46 area next, and soon.

The key .447 is at 38.63, so I guess I could say that is the very high end of this area, but I'd like it to turn here if it were to turn. Notice we are about to close cash right at a key area. Same old, same old. But the look of this, to me, is 'straight up'. It wants to explode and get to 46 ASAFP, in my opinion. Is that really what will happen, or are they making it look that way as it prepares to dump off this key area? I have no idea. That's the beauty of it. I don't know, and I feel I don't need to know to construct worthwhile potential trades and trade management.

So, let's say 44-46, and then low 50's. That low 50's is a profound area. I can't imagine they won't try for either, especially that lower 50's. But, if they get that high, then I think they are back in election run mode, and it will likely 'sail'. But, first it has to overcome this big bearish TD ABCD area here. That is a major accomplishment which it hasn't done yet.

jim = i just wanted a simple yes or no... was there anything on the chart based on medianlines or fib or abcd;s that was not knowable in advance? that was the question....

So, Jim, what's so special about that 46-48 area, besides all the obvious technical factors that define the area? And while we're at it, does this apply to the low 50's area? Ah, see the 46-48 area is the area for a 'backtest' of the critical, broken 240-min price flow, and it would come in the form of a bearish EXP ABCD. I thought it would do it in a zigzag ABCD, but it went ahead and set a new low instead of bouncing off that potential C point where is started up before the roll. And the lower 50's area, that has a slew of technical factors pointing there, but it could be a 'throw over' of that 'backtest', and down it goes, trapping many. We shall see.

just as i would ask of this chart.... is there anything on this chart based on medianlines, fib and abcd's that was not knowable in advance to give me the exact moment i reversed my short in FAS leaving 33 cents on the table?

and given what we know about medianlines , fib and abcd's is there anything on this chart that gives a target trader a reason to not attempt to push price to the target?

the logic of this trade was using the red line green set at the dbs 1.128 to target trade to the 1.128... i squeezed all but 11 cents out of swing...i can do no better...

roofer, I did answer the question with a yes. As for just wanting a simple answer, this reminds me of a courtroom scene where the prosecutor asks a question and the person on the stand wants to explain 'the truth', but is cut off, told to answer the question with a yes or no, and then told 'no further questions'. The person wants to say more, and the judge orders them to stop or be held in contempt of court. They say they just want to explain, to show the whole story, have the truth come out, for justice to be served, and they are allowed only a yes or no answer.

My point is that answer is good for you, but doesn't serve this forum. It may serve students of yours in some way (I don't see how, but let's say it does). It surely doesn't serve students of my books and my mentoring, and that is who this forum is created for. So the yes answer was for you, and the rest was for all those that are as confused as hell and have no idea what to do next in their studies or with their ‘Trading Plan’. I am forced to address that.

So, although I understand that it was important for you to have me state in public that everything needed to do what you do has been shown, that creates a disservice to my students if I leave it at that. Pointing that out is helpful in that it clarifies that I didn't need to do all that work for your benefit, but I didn't do that post for you, so in reality it didn't add anything to the mix for me. My job in here, and it is a tireless one, is to help people understand the KT methodology.

Look, I've covered this a million times in here. When I do, roofer almost always says 'I can see I'm not wanted in here (or not needed, or not appreciated, or whatever), so I'm leaving, I won't ever be back.' I hope this time is different, but I fear it won’t be. roofer and I use a lot of the same tools. We have shared a lot, and both learned a lot from each other. But our styles are a lot different. I am not, and I can't imagine I ever will be a ‘target trader’. I'm a trend trader who lives and dies by trailing stops and lots and lots of very labor intensive price action reading. I am 'interactive' with literally every tick of the price action. We use a lot of the same tools for finding areas, but my approach is still quite different, and I use lots and lots of tools for PTAs that roofer doesn't.

As far as the rest of the trading plan, outside the PTA aspect, I can venture to say roofer and I use none of the same tools. Not a single one. In that way, we are night and day. I've been over this so many times I may just make a sticky post on it and just refer back to it time and again when this comes up. There is room for both viewpoints in here. Just understand if you want to follow the KT methodology close to how I see it, you will be using some of the PTA tools that roofer uses, many more he doesn't, and probably nothing else he does after the trade is initiated. I don't use stops the way he does, I don't do entry the way he does, and we differ radically in management concepts.

I have made this clear over and over in the past, and I am doing so again now. If you want to study roofer's style, contact him by private messaging and ask him to mentor you, or whatever. But also keep in mind, this is the KT forum, and discussion of entry, stop placement, management, and so on, as well as other aspect of PTA formation, 'context', and so on, as per the KT methodology, is the point of this forum. It's all fine and good to talk about target trading, and to see if you want to do that for your own 'Trading Plan', but understand it is not a part of the KT methodology. It may be a part of what you want to do, and that's why I think it is great to see it in here, but the direction of this forum is not target trading or many of the other things we see in here.

Originally posted by roofer

jim = i just wanted a simple yes or no... was there anything on the chart based on medianlines or fib or abcd;s that was not knowable in advance? that was the question....

Thanks for the reply, tomo. I want to relate some thoughts. I am in no way directing this at roofer, so, roofer, please, please, please realize I'm just making general comments about forums, and how I think my forum should be.

I recall in the public mypivots forum Joe Ross used to make posts. People would ask great questions, and he never answered a single one. After awhile, if I recall the events correctly, they warned him he must answer questions if he planned to make posts showing setups, trades, and such. He didn't respond, and simply made more posts. They banned him. Now, I know Joe, and have corresponded with him. But, even with that, I agreed with the ban. A forum shouldn't be a place to just post. It is a place for discussion. If one doesn't want to explain, answer questions, and have open discussion, they should start a blog and do like 'joey-D' does, post their stuff until they are blue in the face. No explanations, no questions, just posts, take 'em or leave 'em. But, this forum is not laid out for that.

So, when anyone makes a post, they should expect questions, and should be ready to answer them. That should never lead to friction or issues. If it does, there is something 'not right'. Although I have proprietary material, and some of that is available only to those that work directly with me and sign non-disclosure agreements, all that is in the books and website commentary, and a few new things I let slip in here, it's all open for discussion in here. It's all open for discussion or questions, any aspect of the methodology.

I'm a bit constrained because, as a seller of products I can't (on advice of an attorney) discuss specific trades (none of you are so constrained). I can, though, from an educational perspective, discuss specifics of how I think the methodology applies to any given situation. So I can say I see an entry trigger here, or a scale out trigger there, or a PTA here, or whatever. If I get asked a question I will attempt to address it each and every time. I think anyone who posts anything needs to be ready and willing to do the same. If not, this forum is not the right one for them. I am not pointing to anyone specifically, it's just a general observation, and all in here should understand that.

Bottom line, this is a discussion forum, not a posting forum. We all need to feel safe and comfortable asking any reasonable and relevant question about any post, and expect a reasonable and timely answer. That's the point of the forum, that's what we are all doing here, and only those that are in agreement with that philosophy should be here. Right?