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My reply To Jim Kane


I have no intention of making a "personal" response and since someone has blocked the ability to use the reply button to your recent post this is the only way I know to reach you. I want to keep this as public as possible and deep down so do you. Our emails in the past have left me with empty promises, I still have emails were you tell me that taking down your site is going to be a slow process. Well, here it is 4 - 5 years later and your still selling stuff from that same site ( it's never been taken down) and I would assume you are still mentoring "private" clients. Your favorite way of teaching. So I guess it really has been a slow process You also never posted the public charts you said you would and I find it funny that you just want to gloss over that. And now your expecting something from me ? How strange ! I found that last post full of ego and arrogance. You should also go back and actually read the fib grid as it has no mention of decimal places or fractions and doesn't use highs or lows to calculate fibonacci lines. That's because they are not fibonacci lines. . That title was just my way of being a wise ass ( people are fibbing if they try to sell you stuff about fibs)as I have never heard of anyone using fibs to make money on a consistent basis. As far as Gann goes you can read what Larry Williams found out about Gann when he met his son and a guy who worked for him. Pure fluff but people still buy into it.

So it doesn't take a genius to realize ahead of time that I am not about to give up my time to validate you JIm. You are getting caught up on wanting to get credit for a number. Some .88 decimal thing or something. Lets have you validate yourself to us. Just scan in 4 years of verified trading statements. You will then have the honor of being one of the one percent ( not even sure if it would be that high )of people selling trading information that can actually back up their claims. Or just take some white out and get rid of your account stuff, scan them in and then all the world can see. You will have the validation you seem to be looking for.They can be quarterly or whatever you want. You obviously have tons of time if you are the one with the most posts and can write so much . So this should be a small task.

I have absolutely no interest in your material. So lets not drag this on and have you keep us waiting for years to get us those statements. You know that I am always suspicious of posts from people that need to keep their name out there. That's a given. It doesn't take a genius to know I would think that.

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention. Oh yeah, one last thing .."wealthy" is a relative term so don't get so hung up on that.

Bruce
I do admit, after being at the keyboard since before the market opened, and not having eaten since before lunch, that was poorly written. I should have broken all those ' never evers' out as some kind of separate paragraph. I was just tired of Bruce trying to get me to take it down, when right now it is all I cling to. So I was trying to make it clear my viewpoint as of today is that I will never take it down. I wish I wrote that more clearly, but I am writing a lot...
I did this already or are you so concerned with trying get "out" of having to post statements that you just want to give me the run around. ? I guess this is fun for you . So this is repeated and what I want specifically ( let me quote myself ) is in bold for ya :


BruceM says :
"Why don't we compromise to this: You post a current years worth of statements of whatever you choose ( but they must be real, not an excel spreadsheet and be from a trading firm we hopefully all know or can verify it's a real firm) and you have my word that I won't comment on them in any way at all. Now I am giving my word in public so I can be held to task. This way we can let anyone who reads this validate things for themselves. They certainly don't need me to do that anyway. You can point to this thread if you wish and do what you like. So basically post what you like outside of those 2 things I mentioned. If you choose to post statements that show only one trade per month or a thousand then so be it "


Naturally this isn't good enough for you because you have nothing to show or perhaps you are on medicine and cannot comprehend my specifics. I don't think u can face the fact that you have no statements Jim and this is all just a big joke. You never had nor do u have any intention to post statements. This is a perverse game to you and I played along enough.

I can't keep posting everything twice and I am serious when I say that I think you must be doped up or just kicking back having a few beers and a good laugh at all this..... in some strange way you seem to be trying to self destruct. The more you write the more disturbing this all becomes and I just feel sad for you now.

so once again we are back to the fact that Jim Kane will not post statements even when he has been given so much latitude in what he decides to post for statements. Gheesh, we already covered this ground many posts back and many years ago Jim. So you want me to let you off the hook....ok you are free .....it;s not like anyone expected you to come through anyway. You could have changed your entire image with just a few statements of your choice but you have decided to keep your old tarnished image intact. Carry on doing the same things and you get the same results. Your capabilities are reflected in your blank statements JIm. That is what you are leaving us with. That and a bunch or words. You blame me for your failure. Look in the mirror pal. That's the person who needs to man up. I gave you a chance here and you blew it big time. Everyone can read how you avoided the statements issue. People don't buy into the rhetoric and can see the way things try to get twisted around. You insult our forum and the readers. You have proven me correct about you. Thank you for doing that but I sure would have liked to have seen you dig yourself out of the whole with the statements. It would have been so refreshing. So you can talk to yourself from here. Lord knows I have tried to be patient with you but it's all used up. You need to go attempt to pull someones else's strings from here. Don't ask me any questions , I won't answer. Say what you will as you won't be talking to me from here. My door to you opens when you follow through. Otherwise have a good life !



Originally posted by jimkane





As for the statements, none of what I asked was addressed, and I have zero to prove, so I guess we let that one die. All I was trying to do was come up with some way, some method of some kind, to 'force' you to see me as I am. To make you have to face what my capabilities are, what my skills are, what people I have helped think of me, and to think about the things you said in the past, the paint all vendors the same, shoot first and don't bother with questions later, must kill his website and get him off MyPivots approach you follow. I just wanted you to see the truth.

This is a sad exchange and really beneath you both.

Please reconsider your acrimony. Bruce, I'm sure you don't need the upset and Jim you, after all that's happened in your life, should know that life's too short.

Bury the hatchet, you'll both be better for it.

Mike
Well, this did go exactly as it did last time. Addressing points one by one doesn't work. I feel I am addressing them, and Bruce says I'm ignoring them. I see him ignoring all my points (I asked specifically what results the statements would have to show to get his 'endorsement', and how to address showing statements traded in a corporate structure in a state where the principles in the corporation could not be identified, and got no reply). As far as medications that have any doping effect, I take none. I don't drink alcohol at or use any recreational drugs. That can't account for what I'm saying.

As for statements, recall this whole topic started from a quote that Bruce said about me not ever having called a market turn, not even one. I attempted to address that. I do not recall any posts where Bruce asked me for statements in the past. He is done with this thread, so he won't post them if they exist. Even if they did, I was simply trying to address the one point he made about not seeing me ever call a turn. He immediately wouldn't address that in any way I offered, and he changed the topic to me posting statements. I have not been able to get back to the initial topic, me showing Bruce I could indeed call market turns, since then. Instead of trying to make that happen, it's now all about me showing statements.

Let me really go wild/sarc here before we end this thread. I am not going to produce any statements because I never claimed I have ever traded in my life. Let's go even further and say I have never traded in my life. Not one trade. What I am saying is that I spent about 54,000 hours so far just playing around looking at the market. I learned a lot of things, one of them calling market turns in advance. That's my opinion anyway. I think what I learned is useful to some people. If they pay me, I'll try to teach them some of what I learned, like how I call market turns in advance. I do this in my forum, so someone can watch me for years if they want, to see if they think I have anything to teach them. I surely can't do it myself. After all, I've never actually taken a trade in my life. Those who can, do, those who can't, teach. I can't do it, so I teach. I wish I had statements, but I can't produce them because, as Bruce has now shown, I can't trade at all.

I think I can call market turns, though. I think I can show people the techniques I use to call market turns. I have demonstrated that in a place where people may be interested. There is no point to doing it out here, because no one out here is ever going to work with me. But, I wanted to offer to Bruce to see me do it, see my track record. It's the only track record I have, since I have no statements. Bruce made that clear. Maybe some day I'll trade, but right now I just like posting all day in my forum. I know if I saw someone call endless market turns all day in a free forum where I could ask him any questions and he'd answer them all I'd care about, too, was seeing his statements before I asked those questions or tried those techniques out. /sarc

I am truly sorry I ever came out of my hole with my own crew. I am sorry I stirred up this hornets nest. I'm sorry that I got ticked off seeing those posts when I was at my limit for stress. I'm sorry I ever posted at all in the public forum. My legacy student, the one with the hedge fund, he has asked me many times over the years to work with him. He tells me I'm crazy hanging out in a forum, dealing with stuff like this. The real way to help people is not to teach them, it's to manage their money in a better way than others. The really crazy part was I just told him I think I am going to take him up on his offer and for us to start hammering out the best way for this no matter how unfeasible it may seem, then the thing hit with my better half. Stuff happens. Now I've been knocked into another life.

All this is what it is. No one reading this cares about my work, or what I can or can't do. This isn't the venue for that. I only wound up here in the first place because over a decade ago Guy asked me to try his Fib calculator, then offered me a forum. I wanted one where I could show the proprietary work to people who follow me, hence the private forum. I didn't have the skills (and I still don't today) to host my own forum. If I did, I'd have done that, and no one here ever would have heard of me, and we'd all be a lot happier today for it. But, it played out like it did.

If I had it to do over I would have asked that those posts be deleted, and call it good. Most of the other ones from the previous blow up were deleted, so maybe these could have been. My mistake. But, I think it is more clear now what I can do with market turns. Not that it matters...


Originally posted by BruceM

I did this already or are you so concerned with trying get "out" of having to post statements that you just want to give me the run around. ? I guess this is fun for you . So this is repeated and what I want specifically ( let me quote myself ) is in bold for ya :


BruceM says :
"Why don't we compromise to this: You post a current years worth of statements of whatever you choose ( but they must be real, not an excel spreadsheet and be from a trading firm we hopefully all know or can verify it's a real firm) and you have my word that I won't comment on them in any way at all. Now I am giving my word in public so I can be held to task. This way we can let anyone who reads this validate things for themselves. They certainly don't need me to do that anyway. You can point to this thread if you wish and do what you like. So basically post what you like outside of those 2 things I mentioned. If you choose to post statements that show only one trade per month or a thousand then so be it "


Naturally this isn't good enough for you because you have nothing to show or perhaps you are on medicine and cannot comprehend my specifics. I don't think u can face the fact that you have no statements Jim and this is all just a big joke. You never had nor do u have any intention to post statements. This is a perverse game to you and I played along enough.

I can't keep posting everything twice and I am serious when I say that I think you must be doped up or just kicking back having a few beers and a good laugh at all this..... in some strange way you seem to be trying to self destruct. The more you write the more disturbing this all becomes and I just feel sad for you now.

so once again we are back to the fact that Jim Kane will not post statements even when he has been given so much latitude in what he decides to post for statements. Gheesh, we already covered this ground many posts back and many years ago Jim. So you want me to let you off the hook....ok you are free .....it;s not like anyone expected you to come through anyway. You could have changed your entire image with just a few statements of your choice but you have decided to keep your old tarnished image intact. Carry on doing the same things and you get the same results. Your capabilities are reflected in your blank statements JIm. That is what you are leaving us with. That and a bunch or words. You blame me for your failure. Look in the mirror pal. That's the person who needs to man up. I gave you a chance here and you blew it big time. Everyone can read how you avoided the statements issue. People don't buy into the rhetoric and can see the way things try to get twisted around. You insult our forum and the readers. You have proven me correct about you. Thank you for doing that but I sure would have liked to have seen you dig yourself out of the whole with the statements. It would have been so refreshing. So you can talk to yourself from here. Lord knows I have tried to be patient with you but it's all used up. You need to go attempt to pull someones else's strings from here. Don't ask me any questions , I won't answer. Say what you will as you won't be talking to me from here. My door to you opens when you follow through. Otherwise have a good life !



Originally posted by jimkane





As for the statements, none of what I asked was addressed, and I have zero to prove, so I guess we let that one die. All I was trying to do was come up with some way, some method of some kind, to 'force' you to see me as I am. To make you have to face what my capabilities are, what my skills are, what people I have helped think of me, and to think about the things you said in the past, the paint all vendors the same, shoot first and don't bother with questions later, must kill his website and get him off MyPivots approach you follow. I just wanted you to see the truth.


Thanks Big Mike, that's a really nice post.


Originally posted by Big Mike

This is a sad exchange and really beneath you both.

Please reconsider your acrimony. Bruce, I'm sure you don't need the upset and Jim you, after all that's happened in your life, should know that life's too short.

Bury the hatchet, you'll both be better for it.

Mike
I will reply with more details later today, but right now I can confirm all the posts quoted by Jim.

I follow Jim's private forum everyday, reading his posts real time and do not know a single trader being so often on the right side of the market, which means he does not present levels on both sides of current price but choses only one direction, which in vast majority of cases turns out to be right. One last thing, Jim's areas are posted in advance.

Originally posted by jimkane

I know this is utterly, completely pointless, but why not. I'm in this deep anyway. Here are some comments with timestamps from the last week. I choose ones that had price levels because that is what people around here seem to want. And for the style of trading the traders here do, I can understand that. But, as explained in the original post, and if you ask any of my readers (all three of them I think?), this is such a tiny fraction of what I show, it's almost trivial.

My readers would say it's all the comments on price action and understanding what 'they' are doing that is what I have most to offer. This methodology is the dead opposite of a KISS method, it's a super-complex, if you want to work your backside off but your goal is to truly understand the market and price movement under pretty much all conditions and all liquid instruments, this might be something to study. So, the value is in my endless explanations about what I see and think is going on. The price levels are important, but not that much. Nonetheless, here's some posts. Get out a 1-min and 5-min chart, look at the time stamps, and see for yourself. Bruce is free to confirm all these posts any time he wishes. The terms are stated.



18-Apr-2016 at 12:26 PM

The next area is 2096-2100...

(Comment: 2098.50 was hit at 5:52 AM. Note that I do not just look at intraday, I look at any move on any timeframe, as long as it is liquid. Trailing stops can be run on overnight plays. 98.50 led to an immediate drop of 8.00 points, then set up a bounce to short for a bigger drop.)



19-Apr-2016 at 9:37 AM

I have two close levels to watch in here, one at 90.50-91.00, and one at 88-89. Both are 'center of area' (they don't include everything, but that's too hard to post fast).

(Comment: low was 90.50, set at 9:41-42 AM. Bounced almost straight up to 97.75.)



19-Apr-2016 at 10:39 AM

Now I am curious is 97.75 the HOD...

(Comment: price was around 95 when this was posted. The high was retested, but it was indeed the HOD.)



19-Apr-2016 at 10:41 AM

I know what I think is going to happen...



19-Apr-2016 at 11:28 AM

In case it is not clear, I am totally short side bias very-short-term...

(Comment: sellable rip starts at 11:33 AM, ends at 11:38 AM, and drops 10.25 points from there, and 12.50 from the high.)



19-Apr-2016 at 12:06 PM

So, what would I like? I'd like it to get to that lower 80's area I have. The methodology calls for 'management mode' here, so it does what it does.

(Comment: Not quite there, it only hit 85.00.)



19-Apr-2016 at 12:31 PM

Monster cluster of short-term Fibs and such right on the line that has another line right over it from the 240-min/daily chart. Crazy spot here.


19-Apr-2016 at 12:32 PM

It really should produce a substantial bounce, though, or reverse it.

(Comment: Low was at 12:50 PM, two ticks lower than the low right before it, surrounding my post time.)



19-Apr-2016 at 1:21 PM

I think it may want the 92.25 area. Or, it may just 'make it all back', as they are wont to do.

(Comment: This leg down started from 95.25 (recall my sellable rip?). The high for the move was 95.50. This defines the 'make it all back' level.



19-Apr-2016 at 1:49 PM

I don't think this area is going to be respected. I think this will be a make it all back... I think this will most likely be a ride until close.

(Comment: 92.25 area just being approached. It did not hold as expected. It finished the day right near the high for the move, making it all back.)



20-Apr-2016 at 10:51 AM

This is a key spot here because it just went a little below the obvious TL, and there is a monster confluence here. It's also somewhat of an ABCD with an ABCD in the BC leg. There is also a bigger hybrid ABCD forming or formed... I think this may be worth a shot...

(Comment: low was put in at 10:45 AM, buyable dip at 10:54 AM at 91.00, hit 2105.25 at 15:01 PM)



21-Apr-2016 at 9:47 AM

...there is a primo area at around 77.50-77.75

(Comment: low was 77.75 hit at 18:28 PM, 11.25 point bounce)



These are the comments that led to the post I posted above-


22-Apr-2016 at 9:33 AM

So, this was a big 4PT there. If one was bullish off that 77.75 area, then this would be a great 'W2' entry. The

questions is, are you bullish?


22-Apr-2016 at 9:34 AM

And, can you be bullish just enough for an intraday play, even if you aren't looking for a big move?

(Comment: 80.75 low on the open formed the setup, dip at 9:33 AM to 83.00, high was 89.00 at 10:01 AM)



22-Apr-2016 at 11:33 AM

Oops, I staged this awhile ago, got distracted, and never posted it. Sorry.

For now I like a very short-term long play. Only for that hypothetical highly skilled trader who is very fast and very jumpy...

(Comment: low was at 10:45 at 75.00, but I didn't post this until it was moving a bit. Lots more shaking and dips after that, and it put in the final 'retest' at 12:47 at 76.00, so there was a ton of time to get on this one. Hit 88.75 before the close.)



22-Apr-2016 at 1:45 PM

I think it wants at least 87 area, then we can see.

(Comment: At the time of this post price was around 84. Price hit 86.75 at 14:32 PM, and hit 87.00 on the reopen in the

little short Friday session.)



25-Apr-2016 at 10:06 AM

70-71 would be a nice sweep and price flow area if they just want to shake 'em out a bit.

(Comment: low was 71.00 at 11:10 AM, high 84.50 as of the time of this post)
Can anyone explain to me why should Jim close his website?
To boost his credibility???
Well that sounds like pure nonsense, that even Monthy Python wouldn't have invented.
I agree Mike and thought this was put to rest 5 years ago.......time is too valuable and I knew where this would go and mentioned that at the end of the post that started this thread on page one.....the truth has set us all free now.....all is cool by me......the good lord gave us two ears and one mouth so we should all spend less time talking and more time listening....I think that needs to be applied to forums meaning that we should spend less time typing and more time reading.......I'm tired of repeating myself and it's as if my replies aren't even being read. It's all too self serving and self centered.
Originally posted by Big Mike

This is a sad exchange and really beneath you both.

Please reconsider your acrimony. Bruce, I'm sure you don't need the upset and Jim you, after all that's happened in your life, should know that life's too short.

Bury the hatchet, you'll both be better for it.

Mike
Well, I thought Bruce wasn't going to reply any more, or even check back. He agrees with Big Mike's nice post, and that should have been that. But then he has to attempt to have the last word, get in a final jab, and leave his message to the forum by saying "It's all too self serving and self centered." He wanted to see real time market calls, I offered that, and that was self-centered? He asked for them. I offered. He just couldn't let it go. And he had to mention again "I'm tired of repeating myself and it's as if my replies aren't even being read." But look at how many citations I did mentioning what I asked and he ignored over and over (not to mention what he asked for was off-topic and was a thread jack). That's really the pot calling the kettle black. And he says "the truth has set us all free now....." Talk about purposefully inflammatory.

I started a thread to offer Bruce what he asked for (albeit a long time ago), he changed the topic to something else, and then feels he revealed a great truth that has now set us all free. So, this final post couldn't just be a nice one and let's bury the hatchet as Mike suggested, it had to be full of passive-aggressive final words, so he feels like he won. Yet he never addressed the topic from the start, and couldn't just end it nice. So, I guess in a sense, if the readers are truly paying attention, the truth will set them free. Now they understand where we are both coming from.
I was hoping that we could end this with that last post I made, and I can just lock this thread to end it, but I was just musing over something and thought I'd post it. At this point I'm sure everyone is tired of this thread anyway, so I doubt anyone is even reading it anymore. I won't be nasty.

Bruce said:

"I have yet to ever see either you or Jim call any turn in the market ever. Lord knows I have asked many times."

I made an offer to address this. That was the topic of the thread. I did not want what has happened above to happen. Here's what I said in the original post.

"All we need to make this happen is for Bruce to contact me personally. I am not going to debate this in the forum, or get involved with all the haters out there that want to shred me."

Here was how Bruce started out his response:

"I have no intention of making a "personal" response..."

I was just curious, Bruce, a friendly question, have you had some kind of training? The way you do responses, you seem like you have some training. This is a very common technique, to take control from the other person, show you are in charge, and dictate the direction of the interaction.

From here he goes on to broken promises, things he thinks I want credit for, saying this is all an insult to the forum, and saying that I should produce statements. Notice what the entire post has in common. It does not address in any way, shape, or form what the thread topic is, my willingness to provide Bruce what his original post was asking for. He goes immediately off topic. Read his post a few times, and tell me how he addresses what I am willing to do (other than saying he won't validate me).

Notice, too, that he kept asking for statements in many of the other posts, but would not say, in any manner, that if I did provide them he would do anything expect for 'shut up'. No validation, he twice ignored my asking him what the statements have to show so that he would say in the forum I know what I am doing. He avoided that because no matter what the statements show, he is never going to give me any credit. But this is all a moot point because it's another topic entirely.

The proper forum courtesy would have been for him to reply, on topic, to my proposal. If he thought it was too much work I would have countered with, okay, then come in for a week, watch my posts in real time, and then just agree to post in public your thoughts on if I addressed your request for calling market turns, and if you felt I could do it (you know, to a degree that you, or Koolio, or whomever can do it). E-Z P-Z. Then, if you wanted to address all those other concerns, start a thread here and we can do that. It may all be worth addressing, but in a thread about that. This topic got jacked on the very first post.

Lastly, Bruce said:

"...and since someone has blocked the ability to use the reply button to your recent post this is the only way I know to reach you."

Yet in the original post I said:

"I have decided to make one more post here, in my own public area. I will close this topic so no one can reply."

I guess he didn't read that... Or recall the PM function on this website, which we have used back and forth extensively many times in the past. In fact, to further show how things have went downhill, let me quote a little from one of those PM exchanges:

Jim: "Let me get this straight, then, 'in writing'. If I go and post today, in a thread I create in say the charts area, the learning futures trading, or the trader's lounge, or something like that, and I show some chart examples of a technique, not before-the-fact, as my goal is to explain a trading concept, and I refer to Scott Carney's books and website, Robert Miner's book and website, Tim Morge's book and website, and maybe a few other books, all relevant to specific points descibed in the technique, you are fine with that? And anyone who screams shill, you will publically jump up and defend me and say this is good citation and background for further research, and clearly not shilling?"

Bruce: "I will back you up 100%...I'm behind ya.....here it is in writing...

If you think it's valuable and DT/Guy is ok with the way it's posted then I certainly am ok with it....like I have been trying to say...I do respect you and think you are one of the "good guys"...."


How did it go from that to what it is today...
This is my forum in here, no matter who starts the thread. I closed this topic. Posting after that is showing no respect. The only reason it isn't already locked is there were some forum changes and moderators can't lock it right now, so we are waiting on Guy. Please stop posting. If you want to continue this discussion go outside the Kane Trading forum area and start a new thread out there.