My reply To Jim Kane

I have no intention of making a "personal" response and since someone has blocked the ability to use the reply button to your recent post this is the only way I know to reach you. I want to keep this as public as possible and deep down so do you. Our emails in the past have left me with empty promises, I still have emails were you tell me that taking down your site is going to be a slow process. Well, here it is 4 - 5 years later and your still selling stuff from that same site ( it's never been taken down) and I would assume you are still mentoring "private" clients. Your favorite way of teaching. So I guess it really has been a slow process You also never posted the public charts you said you would and I find it funny that you just want to gloss over that. And now your expecting something from me ? How strange ! I found that last post full of ego and arrogance. You should also go back and actually read the fib grid as it has no mention of decimal places or fractions and doesn't use highs or lows to calculate fibonacci lines. That's because they are not fibonacci lines. . That title was just my way of being a wise ass ( people are fibbing if they try to sell you stuff about fibs)as I have never heard of anyone using fibs to make money on a consistent basis. As far as Gann goes you can read what Larry Williams found out about Gann when he met his son and a guy who worked for him. Pure fluff but people still buy into it.

So it doesn't take a genius to realize ahead of time that I am not about to give up my time to validate you JIm. You are getting caught up on wanting to get credit for a number. Some .88 decimal thing or something. Lets have you validate yourself to us. Just scan in 4 years of verified trading statements. You will then have the honor of being one of the one percent ( not even sure if it would be that high )of people selling trading information that can actually back up their claims. Or just take some white out and get rid of your account stuff, scan them in and then all the world can see. You will have the validation you seem to be looking for.They can be quarterly or whatever you want. You obviously have tons of time if you are the one with the most posts and can write so much . So this should be a small task.

I have absolutely no interest in your material. So lets not drag this on and have you keep us waiting for years to get us those statements. You know that I am always suspicious of posts from people that need to keep their name out there. That's a given. It doesn't take a genius to know I would think that.

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention. Oh yeah, one last thing .."wealthy" is a relative term so don't get so hung up on that.

Just like I predicted. All the real time posts are there, all time stamped. But instead Bruce escalated this right to my producing statements, something Bruce, the greatest trader on MyPivots, hasn't himself done. I am not looking for any validation. Don't want it, don't need it. I just want people like you to worry about your own affairs and leave me to mine.

As far as the site, I explained that to you multiple times in personal communications. I will tell the story once again in public. I will never, ever take the site down. Ever. I built that site with my dad. I knew nothing about web coding. He built my previous business site, and we worked on this one together, side by side. I described what I wanted, he did it. We spent like six months on it. My previous business website was the most extensive at the time of anyone in that business. When I told him to take it down he was very disappointed (I have since resurrected a few of the pages as a tribute). Then he died suddenly.

He was my best friend. There has been a huge hole in my life ever since. I told this all to Bruce, several times. I will never take the site down. Ever. It will go down when I pass away and the hosting company stops getting paid. That's a given. I did say I wanted to take it down because I am so sick of people like Bruce that I just wanted to divorce myself from all this. But given what I just mentioned, I am not going to let people like that spoil my keeping alive the only existing project my dad and I worked on together. Instead I just gave up on the public area. Left all the haters to themselves.

Look, the issue was that Bruce said I never called a market turn ever. I have called thousands of them in my opinion, in my private forum. All I offered was for Bruce to see that, and say 'Okay, he does call lots of market turns.' I have never made a single claim that I can trade successfully at all (I make no claims of any kind about anything, period, end of story, never have, never will). If I did, then asking for statements would be reasonable. I said I have found some things I think are helpful to people. If they want to learn them, I can help. I can make real-time market reads, and I have over a 32K post count time stamped track record for that (and it’s all free). All one has do is look. But, instead of looking, getting everything that was asked for, Bruce decided to instead ask for something he himself won't do.

I can see that this is just going down the same path as last time. My impressions is that Bruce can't stand me, he hates all vendors, and just wants my website down, me not selling anything or helping anyone (unless it's free), and to never post on this forum. And anything he does will always be directed towards that goal. But, even though I am sure everyone will support him fully, my post will always show the offer I made, and that he declined. Just as I said in the post that he would. So, all you readers, draw your own conclusions.
I know that this will likely just inflame the situation (which I really don't want), and we are right back where we were four and a half years ago. But, here goes. Here's a post I made in my forum.

Originally posted by jimkane

22-Apr-2016 at 9:57 AM

Here's the thing about how I do this forum, and why 'outsiders' just wouldn't get it. I can see that guy, if he came in, criticizing what I did there. How I teach. He would say I should have said my exact entry if I traded*, and to be clear if I was going to trade off that, and then state my 'profit target' (which we know isn't even in my very comprehensive 'Trading Plan'...). And as soon as I do that people stop thinking and just do whatever I do. Note I have never posted one single trade in over 32K posts. That's not the kind of forum this is. This is about me trying to guide people on their journey to learning my methodology. And I do that in the way I feel is most effective.

Look, I posted the area way, way, way in advance. I thought it only had like a 5% chance of seeing that in one day. Over time, maybe, in one day, not likely. But it got there. So, now it's on an area. What now? Well, I gave some hints. Think about it, do your best guess as to what the right move is, and try it out. Practice. Nothing wrong with simulation mode in the early stages, no need to waste money. Do your journal, try to understand your reasoning and your weaknesses. Then work on those. This isn't one of those brain dead, simple methodologies with an obvious 'profit target', where posting one's actual trade sequences with a few lines explaining, and doing that over and over ad infinitum is going to 'teach' somebody something. We are at a whole different level in here, with a whole different methodology. And this is how I teach it.

* And here's the really aggravating thing. If he does come in here (chances: 0.000000000000000000001%), and sees that I 'call market turns' left and right, many times to the tick, over and over, he won't then say I know what I'm doing. He won't accept it. He'll then say I never post actual trades (which has never been something he 'asked' for). Then if I did that (I won't, it's not my style, and my attorney long ago when I started the project told me it is highly ill advised), he would say well, I can't tell if those are real trades. He'd need either some live screen capture video program, preferably with sound, or such. Then if I did that, he'd say maybe those were edited, or hand selected. So we'd need what, a 100% of the time live streaming feed of every day for how long? Then he'd say well maybe the account is only a simulation account. Then he'd want audited statements. If I did that, he'd say I bought the auditing company off. After all, if the big banks did it, why not Jim? Then what, I invite him over to my house to watch me live? If so, I'm sure he'd say I had a lucky week, or that I must have used some fake delayed loop or something to make him think it was live. I realize there is nothing I could ever do because people like this simply are too jealous, or carry too much malice, or whatever, and they will never give me credit, even if it is due, no matter what. They can't. Maybe because they feel so bad about themselves that to give me credit, raise me up, makes them feel even less about themselves. I don't know. I just know we will never, ever hear this guy say that Jim knows what he is doing, that there is value in his work, and in his books. It will never happen, no matter what. You all know my track records on reads, it's not too bad. Mark my words on this one.
Talk about Predictability ! You've lost all credibility with me Jim ! You are not a man of your word. So now your doing a 360 degree turn on the website take down too and you expect someone who isn't selling products to provide statements ? Like I said here comes the stall and redirect. I've been babbling about that vendor tactic for over a decade. Your true colors have been shown. I'll leave it here but will congratulate you if/when you get those statements to us. Your past track record of following through is dismal. The simple truth is that if you had the statements you would show them just to shut me up and put me in my place. All your words and counter - challenges mean nothing ! I apologize to the forum for briefly getting sucked back into this crap and wasting anyone's time who is actually reading this dribble. My mission with Jim Kane is complete .

Originally posted by BruceM

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention.

Oh last thing since this thread won't let me edit my last post. Jim wants me to do the work for him. It would be simple to just provide the statements. Nothing to argue about, nothing to debate . The numbers wouldn't lie. It would be quick, plain and to the point. Instead he'd want to drag it out as long as possible because he understands there is no such thing as bad publicity and the longer he could debate my findings then the longer he can get his name out there.

And Jim if you want my statements you can go jerk around and contact that knucklehead from Coiled Markets who I faxed 4 years ( no coincidence) worth of statements years ago. Been there and done that . I'll be waiting and watching for yours ! Till then you just keep spinning your stories. Your the writer , not me !

I know this is utterly, completely pointless, but why not. I'm in this deep anyway. Here are some comments with timestamps from the last week. I choose ones that had price levels because that is what people around here seem to want. And for the style of trading the traders here do, I can understand that. But, as explained in the original post, and if you ask any of my readers (all three of them I think?), this is such a tiny fraction of what I show, it's almost trivial.

My readers would say it's all the comments on price action and understanding what 'they' are doing that is what I have most to offer. This methodology is the dead opposite of a KISS method, it's a super-complex, if you want to work your backside off but your goal is to truly understand the market and price movement under pretty much all conditions and all liquid instruments, this might be something to study. So, the value is in my endless explanations about what I see and think is going on. The price levels are important, but not that much. Nonetheless, here's some posts. Get out a 1-min and 5-min chart, look at the time stamps, and see for yourself. Bruce is free to confirm all these posts any time he wishes. The terms are stated.

18-Apr-2016 at 12:26 PM

The next area is 2096-2100...

(Comment: 2098.50 was hit at 5:52 AM. Note that I do not just look at intraday, I look at any move on any timeframe, as long as it is liquid. Trailing stops can be run on overnight plays. 98.50 led to an immediate drop of 8.00 points, then set up a bounce to short for a bigger drop.)

19-Apr-2016 at 9:37 AM

I have two close levels to watch in here, one at 90.50-91.00, and one at 88-89. Both are 'center of area' (they don't include everything, but that's too hard to post fast).

(Comment: low was 90.50, set at 9:41-42 AM. Bounced almost straight up to 97.75.)

19-Apr-2016 at 10:39 AM

Now I am curious is 97.75 the HOD...

(Comment: price was around 95 when this was posted. The high was retested, but it was indeed the HOD.)

19-Apr-2016 at 10:41 AM

I know what I think is going to happen...

19-Apr-2016 at 11:28 AM

In case it is not clear, I am totally short side bias very-short-term...

(Comment: sellable rip starts at 11:33 AM, ends at 11:38 AM, and drops 10.25 points from there, and 12.50 from the high.)

19-Apr-2016 at 12:06 PM

So, what would I like? I'd like it to get to that lower 80's area I have. The methodology calls for 'management mode' here, so it does what it does.

(Comment: Not quite there, it only hit 85.00.)

19-Apr-2016 at 12:31 PM

Monster cluster of short-term Fibs and such right on the line that has another line right over it from the 240-min/daily chart. Crazy spot here.

19-Apr-2016 at 12:32 PM

It really should produce a substantial bounce, though, or reverse it.

(Comment: Low was at 12:50 PM, two ticks lower than the low right before it, surrounding my post time.)

19-Apr-2016 at 1:21 PM

I think it may want the 92.25 area. Or, it may just 'make it all back', as they are wont to do.

(Comment: This leg down started from 95.25 (recall my sellable rip?). The high for the move was 95.50. This defines the 'make it all back' level.

19-Apr-2016 at 1:49 PM

I don't think this area is going to be respected. I think this will be a make it all back... I think this will most likely be a ride until close.

(Comment: 92.25 area just being approached. It did not hold as expected. It finished the day right near the high for the move, making it all back.)

20-Apr-2016 at 10:51 AM

This is a key spot here because it just went a little below the obvious TL, and there is a monster confluence here. It's also somewhat of an ABCD with an ABCD in the BC leg. There is also a bigger hybrid ABCD forming or formed... I think this may be worth a shot...

(Comment: low was put in at 10:45 AM, buyable dip at 10:54 AM at 91.00, hit 2105.25 at 15:01 PM)

21-Apr-2016 at 9:47 AM

...there is a primo area at around 77.50-77.75

(Comment: low was 77.75 hit at 18:28 PM, 11.25 point bounce)

These are the comments that led to the post I posted above-

22-Apr-2016 at 9:33 AM

So, this was a big 4PT there. If one was bullish off that 77.75 area, then this would be a great 'W2' entry. The

questions is, are you bullish?

22-Apr-2016 at 9:34 AM

And, can you be bullish just enough for an intraday play, even if you aren't looking for a big move?

(Comment: 80.75 low on the open formed the setup, dip at 9:33 AM to 83.00, high was 89.00 at 10:01 AM)

22-Apr-2016 at 11:33 AM

Oops, I staged this awhile ago, got distracted, and never posted it. Sorry.

For now I like a very short-term long play. Only for that hypothetical highly skilled trader who is very fast and very jumpy...

(Comment: low was at 10:45 at 75.00, but I didn't post this until it was moving a bit. Lots more shaking and dips after that, and it put in the final 'retest' at 12:47 at 76.00, so there was a ton of time to get on this one. Hit 88.75 before the close.)

22-Apr-2016 at 1:45 PM

I think it wants at least 87 area, then we can see.

(Comment: At the time of this post price was around 84. Price hit 86.75 at 14:32 PM, and hit 87.00 on the reopen in the

little short Friday session.)

25-Apr-2016 at 10:06 AM

70-71 would be a nice sweep and price flow area if they just want to shake 'em out a bit.

(Comment: low was 71.00 at 11:10 AM, high 84.50 as of the time of this post)
Okay, Bruce. After you read my last post and tell me why all those market turns called in advance in the last week, all verifiable by you and Guy, are now not what your exact quotation asked for ("I have yet to ever see either you or Jim call any turn in the market ever. Lord knows I have asked many times."), let's define a few things on the statements. You tell me specifically what they need to show to get your 'stamp of approval'. When you will publicly support me, say I know what I'm doing, and will tell people my books and mentoring are a good deal. None of this BS about just show me. What do they have to show?

A certain wining percentage (absolutely meaningless, since 'expected value' is all that matters, and trend traders frequently have winning percentages in the 30's). A certain return for the period? What? You tell me right now, before this goes any further, what it needs to show to get this 'approval'. And if I do it, will you then come back with the obvious, I could have faked them instead of the promised support? If I post them, and they meet your criteria, does it end there, and you give that stamp of approval? I'm welcome to post and mention my books in the public area, in reference to trading posts I make there, and you'll support me?

Or will we then go down the road of the statements aren't enough? Let's get this on the record, and then let's move ahead. Of course you will not agree to any of this. Of course not. But you can feel free to tell about how my credibility is lost. Especially with those posts I just posted. Too funny, all of this. Like I said, there is nothing I can ever do that will please Bruce. Now watch, everyone, and see if Bruce specifically addresses what criteria the statements need so that he will start publicly supporting me, or if he will do the distraction routine again... Just list the criteria and the public pledge of support.

Originally posted by BruceM

Talk about Predictability ! You've lost all credibility with me Jim ! You are not a man of your word. So now your doing a 360 degree turn on the website take down too and you expect someone who isn't selling products to provide statements ? Like I said here comes the stall and redirect. I've been babbling about that vendor tactic for over a decade. Your true colors have been shown. I'll leave it here but will congratulate you if/when you get those statements to us. Your past track record of following through is dismal. The simple truth is that if you had the statements you would show them just to shut me up and put me in my place. All your words and counter - challenges mean nothing ! I apologize to the forum for briefly getting sucked back into this crap and wasting anyone's time who is actually reading this dribble. My mission with Jim Kane is complete .

Originally posted by BruceM

Let's not insult the forum anymore with this. Just post the statements and put and end to it. Anything less just implies that you are stalling and trying to redirect peoples attention.

And here's one I don't get. How am I asking Bruce to do any work for me? He said he's never seen me call a market turn ever. Well, I know from past experience that what I posted above is not anything special. In fact, I think the action lately isn't as good as it has been. He can come in, watch me do it all in real time (like that in any way changes the validity, if he witnesses it when it happens or looks at posts and checks them out, with Guy's validations they haven't been altered...).

He could have asked that of me years ago as a professional courtesy, and as long as he signed the non-disclosure agreement, I would have been happy to do it. He could watch me call market turns to his heart's content. In fact, I am thinking about just switching what I do in there to out here for a few weeks. The posts would look pretty much like the above. Then he can say why it all doesn't prove anything, although it's no different than what he does. Oh, I see, he never charged anybody, that's the difference (even though I have never charged for forum access in my life). So, if someone charges and posts the exact same thing as someone who doesn't, that shows the skill of one poster, but not the other?

It's all become clear to me. Because most vendors are crooked slime, he concludes that all vendors must be. There can be no exceptions, no value to anyone charging for trading instruction, period. So his mission in life is to wipe them all out, purge the scourge of the earth. Well, there are a lot of athletes that have coaches, and pay a lot more for them than I could or would ever charge anyone. And they get value for it. But trading is the one field where a coach can never, ever provide value under any circumstances. Just ask Bruce, he'll tell you. Makes zero sense...
And let's talk about teaching. First off, whoever said 'Those who can, do, those who can't, teach' was a complete you know what. That has to be the most asinine thing ever said. Here's a perfect example. I was a math teacher. Anyone want to state that they think I can't do math? Seriously? I can only teach it? Too funny. Let's put that one to a test. Anyone? I didn't think so. One thing you learn in math is it only takes one single counterexample to disprove a statement. Just one. Until someone can demonstrate (and I will cooperate fully) that I can't do math, there's the one counterexample. I sure can do it, and I sure can teach it. I was state certified for years and held professional positions.

So, what if someone could trade very well, but what they did was unteachable, and also let's say they sucked as a teacher, would they likely provide value teaching their methodology? I doubt it. Yet Bruce would give them the gold star of approval because they showed statements.

Let's go to the other extreme. Now let's say someone couldn't trade their way out of a paper bag. But they did discover a great methodology, and were an extraordinarily gifted teacher. And let's say they taught a few people and they are now successful after having worked with this someone, and they feel they owe that to their work together. Now, Bruce would say they should be deported from the planet, as they are scum. Really?

I am just trying to understand his reasoning, and I can't. And I'm trying to understand this obsession with statements. If I were looking for someone, I'd watch them and see if I thought they knew what they were doing. Statements can be faked. Traders can trade okay but suck as teachers or have a methodology that is not teachable, or not suited to the recipient. Yet it's all that matters to Bruce. It's the gold standard. Anyone who wants to see if they think they could learn from me is welcome to hang with me and see for themselves.

Oh, one last question. As far as statements, how does it work if the person who is providing the statements is trading under a corporate structure in a state that does not require listing the principles (such as Nevada)? Not sure how it could be proven who the trader is...
Still trying to sort out why Carmen Basilio, Mohammad Ali, and Sugar Ray Leonard worked with Angelo Dundee. Seems pretty obvious to me that he wouldn't have lasted too long in the ring with any of them. To hear tell, he never actually boxed at all himself. I guess those who can, do, and those who can't, teach. At least he didn't charge them for all that. If he did he'd have been scum, right? It's all starting to make sense now.
As far as time to write, I have tons.Spending all day, pretty much every day just watching the market, including all the after hours, well, it can get boring. I'm not one of those that just watches the first hour or two. I have been known to sleep on a cot in my trading office with trading alarms set so I can see how something is doing when a play is designed to run overnight. I used to put a laptop on my nightstand with alarms are various levels until I came up with the cot idea. I have some health issues so I am here all the time. I have no life outside of the market. This situation is unlikely to change. All I do is just sit in front of the computer. Fortunately, I love the market and trading.

Posting is fun for me, it keeps me from getting distracted. If I just sit there and watch for hours on end I get bored. I drift. If I surf then I am not watching. When I post it helps me focus my ideas, state them, explain them, and keeps me on task. Keep in mind, it is not uncommon for me to watch the market intensely for 16+ straight hours, and I do Sundays from the open, too. Up until there was a character change in the market a little while ago I found the European session to be as good or better than the RTH. I was splitting my sleep up so I would do a couple of naps during the quieter times, and because I am on the west coast, I would then do just before the European open, to maybe an hour after. Get in bed (or on the cot if it was great action), then get up like five hours later for the RTH. This is the life I have chosen. I have absolutely nothing else. So, that's why I have time for 32K posts in over ten years at MyPivots.
This is my forum in here, no matter who starts the thread. I closed this topic. Posting after that is showing no respect. The only reason it isn't already locked is there were some forum changes and moderators can't lock it right now, so we are waiting on Guy. Please stop posting. If you want to continue this discussion go outside the Kane Trading forum area and start a new thread out there.