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eminiviper.com


I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

http://www.mypivots.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2300&whichpage=30

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.


cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...


jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.
Alinghy, thanks for posting those charts.

Making money when things are moving and trending with velocity is relatively easy, but when things slow down and Mr. Chop takes over, your bankroll will get depleted.

No indicator that I'm aware of will keep you out of the chop. That's part of the inherent limitation of lagging price based indicators, which is what Viper uses.
quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini

Viper Auto Trader Morning Results...




hi pt_emini..


what's the scoop?

are your settings OFF?
OR
is Alinghy using the proper system settings?
OR
something went wrong with data when you tested?
OR
Alingy is presenting his tweaking of the system ???

just curious... why such a big difference in the system test results?

By the way I don't trust auto-trading systems;

still, I have been using Hull long enough to trust it.

cheers..
quote:
Originally posted by unicorn

quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini

Viper Auto Trader Morning Results...




hi pt_emini..


what's the scoop?

are your settings OFF?
OR
is Alinghy using the proper system settings?



Todays test was run using 2 range bars for the ES contract just like Alinghy.

We also used 2 contracts per trade meaning 2 profit targets, Alinghy used 3 contracts with 3 profit targets.

The one difference I can see is Alinghy is using a 4 tick profit target and a 9 tick stop loss. In other words he is risking a 9 tick loss to make 4 ticks of profit. If we had set our profit target to 4 ticks then the win% today would have been improved. Even though his win% is improved, we would need to verify if the "risk 9 to make 4" strategy would be any more profitable at the end of the day.

For example, the first trade on this chart would have been a loss no matter what because it only showed 1 tick of profit while open. The second trade would have been profitable using Alinghy's 4 tick profit target...



Click image for original size
Viper Auto Trader


I suspect there may be something more subtle going on with the viper auto trader program, some sort of flaw or bug in the coding which has caused this variance in these two sets of results. I cannot resolve in my mind why our version of viper got turned completely upside down the past two days while Alingy's performed more reasonably.

Today's results in full...

Click image for original size
Viper Auto Trader, Afternoon Results
Absolutely Hysterical!
Just watched the daily Viper video of their trades for the day. First of all, 2 of the trades occurred PRIOR to the open, in the middle of the night. Secondly, the third and last trade they showed occurred at the open EVEN THOUGH THEY ALWAYS STATE IN THEIR WEBINARS TO NEVER TRADE DURING THE FIRST 15 MINUTES! (they call it the Cone of Silence). Thirdly, they didn't actually show a chart of trades that took place, they just drew on a chart after the fact, Monday morning quarterback style. It is so obvious they couldn't pull off a single trade today in the chop so they showed where THEY COULD HAVE TRADED if they wanted to in the middle of the night. It did have one good aspect to it though, ENTERTAINMENT... I laughed my butt off watching it!
quote:
Originally posted by Essiar

Absolutely Hysterical!
Just watched the daily Viper video of their trades for the day. First of all, 2 of the trades occurred PRIOR to the open, in the middle of the night. Secondly, the third and last trade they showed occurred at the open EVEN THOUGH THEY ALWAYS STATE IN THEIR WEBINARS TO NEVER TRADE DURING THE FIRST 15 MINUTES! (they call it the Cone of Silence). Thirdly, they didn't actually show a chart of trades that took place, they just drew on a chart after the fact, Monday morning quarterback style. It is so obvious they couldn't pull off a single trade today in the chop so they showed where THEY COULD HAVE TRADED if they wanted to in the middle of the night. It did have one good aspect to it though, ENTERTAINMENT... I laughed my butt off watching it!




I may be going out on a limb here, but I say these Viper boys are "arguably" (one of Mr. Boyle's favorite words) the best callers of trades in hindsight.
Here I am,

want to be as transparent as possible:

I am going to post the some images coming from 2nd Pc for testing

operation: here the settings were a little bit different for both

Cobra & Diamondback

settings:
Cobra DiamondBack

Range Range
5 2
1 1
6 6
1 0
0 0
10 9
8 8
8 7
6 4
6 6
20 8
1 3
1 1
1 1
0 0
**************

results at 7.08 am PST:


Click image for original size
No Description Entered



results at the day trading close :


Click image for original size
No Description Entered
Attetion new, struggling and Holy Grail seeking traders (who are the lifeblood of vendors selling snakeoil).

Bites from Viper, Cobra, and Anaconda may be fatal to your account.
Thanks for the clarification Alinghy. It appears our results today are right in line with yours using Diamondback on the 2 range chart.
quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini


Todays test was run using 2 range bars for the ES contract just like Alinghy.


I suspect there may be something more subtle going on with the viper auto trader program, some sort of flaw or bug in the coding which has caused this variance in these two sets of results. I cannot resolve in my mind why our version of viper got turned completely upside down the past two days while Alingy's performed more reasonably.





Thanks pt_emini..

I further investigated Alinghy's chart; on his chart 3R lsma(21) is permitting only shorts from the opening time, and his test run takes only short trades starting after the open (15:30 CET - Milan). (I will not bother with pre-market trades.)

It has nothing to do with profit target, in my opinion.

You are probably not using the higher range bar lsma to enable (or inhibit) Long trades/Short trades.

Please verify your use (or lack of use) of this filter and let us know.

I don't use the ninja platform and I am not a fan of tweaking/ optimizing systems; nevertheless I do care about the proper testing of this system and will observe results with keen interest.

cheers...
quote:
Originally posted by unicorn

quote:
Originally posted by pt_emini


Todays test was run using 2 range bars for the ES contract just like Alinghy.


I suspect there may be something more subtle going on with the viper auto trader program, some sort of flaw or bug in the coding which has caused this variance in these two sets of results. I cannot resolve in my mind why our version of viper got turned completely upside down the past two days while Alingy's performed more reasonably.





Thanks pt_emini..

...

I do care about the proper testing of this system and will observe results with keen interest.

cheers...




I agree completely Unicorn. Like you, I want to make sure we are using the system as intended by it's developers. As best I can tell we are using the default system settings.

It does appear Alingy's "2nd PC" results (just posted above) using diamondback on the 2 range bar chart, (which is what our test results used), does confirm our results. So it does appear our system is performing properly.
Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.