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I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:

We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.

cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...

jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.
Download the trial indicator, the settings are all there. The only difference between the trend indicator and the viper indicaotr is that the trend indicator uses one LinReg only. The other one uses two LinReg to confirm a change in color. The numbers are 21 & 34 , and angle is 10.
Seriously, if you go to bigmike's forum , there are a lot of free indicators, they are really good stuff and best of all, open source. For instance, LinReg slope , the LinReg reverseal indicators use the same theory as the viper indicator. They may be a little more difficult to interpret than the viper but it would only takes you two minutes to learn it.

Problem with viper is that it frequently gives false breakout signals. If you use the so called breakout indicator, you will lose a lot of money. it is simply the highest high of the previous 5 bars, you can code it yourself in 1 min
Hello Kingkong,

Where i can find the trial indicator?

regards Frans

Frans68, see my post on page 6...the B/O indicator is identical to the Donchian channel....standard Ninja indicator..

Thx for the reactions,

But is there a link where i can download it like Kingkong pictures?

Regards Frans
Ah, well I'm happy to find that others have been investigating Viper. I was confused about many things: i.e., the varying trading range settings, the modified indicator, and most importantly some kind of official record keeping that measured stops, targets, etc. And I was extremely surprised to hear that an "auto-trade signal" would be coming out soon. Emails and questions were ignored. Forum is nothing but promotion. Another one bytes the dust (sorry). T
I understand they are in testing now to release an auto-trade version.

I don't know about you, but if I had a very profitable auto-trade system, I wouldn't lease it. I would trade it and get rich without having to deal with the public. Or sell the whole thing to a hedge fund or CTA.

phantasmagoria - in reference to your above post- wasnt it bloomberg that once said 'you can make more money by selling stock market advise than by actually trading the stock market'

if he didnt say that maybe he should of said it

Hey guys someone mentioned this Viper stuff to me and although I wasn't seriously interested I was curious. I'm glad you guys outted them. Pretty funny to package up some free indicators, add a few lines of code, and then $100/month.

Even more funny is changing the chart settings every day to find some winners for the videos. That's pretty creative!

Even if they did have indicators that worked right now, they would most likely stop working very soon and then the trader will be SOL.

Hopefully anyone searching for info on Viper will find this thread. :)

Originally posted by gio5959

phantasmagoria - in reference to your above post- wasnt it bloomberg that once said 'you can make more money by selling stock market advise than by actually trading the stock market'

if he didnt say that maybe he should of said it

That's so true. Selling information will always be a lucrative pursuit. Selling trading information is a marketer's wet dream b/c they see the hordes of noobs looking for fast and easy solutions to become a millionaire trader as fast as possible and they're more than happy to provide the "answer".

The price point for trading information is perfect for them too b/c "secret trading info" has an extremely high perceived value. It's one of the few information markets where it's considered reasonable to charge $3000-5000 for supposed info that will be a shortcut to success.

These guys will always be in this market, selling the next big indicator or mechanical system to take a noob from zero to success in 30 days.

This business attracts many pie in the sky dreamers, and it's their money that we're taking when we use common sense and effective trading principles that can be found for free on this and many other forums and a few thick books from the real pros.
Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.