Does anyone really make money trading futures?

Does anyone really make money trading futures?

I am just wondering.

I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.

I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.

For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.

I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.

Thanks in advance for any response.
Originally posted by BruceM

I was curious what your business is.....must be quite interesting to encounter all the different personalities that make us traders function[quote]Originally posted by subq

in the technology & internet consulting & service business, so I speak to a lot of people that run rooms or traders that need help on a technical level
I did my session with hunterone this morning, for basically the entire morning session, and then we were going to hook back up for the afternoon session later, but the action really kicked up right after that so we hooked right back up with the session. He is very generous with his time, and strikes me as a really nice guy.

There have been a lot of questions on the platform we used, and it works quite well. We had some problems early on, and we had a third person in the session. That person exited early, and that solved the problem. From then on it was glitch free. I think it is a great way to do small chats and phone style live chats.

Overall, I noticed several things that I'd like to point out. The first is that hunterone seems to very consistently apply his methodology, and not doing that is an issue I see all the time (having a plan but not following it). I suspect there are many unsuccessful traders out there who have workable methodologies, but simply can't stick to the plan. Watching hunterone would be a good lesson for anyone in that boat as far as seeing a consistent application. He uses some discretion, which is fine with me (being highly discretionary myself, albeit with a very comprehensive and well defined methodology), but one very quickly sees the methodical approach.

Next, I also noticed, and we discussed a bit, the idea that when one is being observed, and 'under pressure' to 'prove' things, it very well could alter the person's performance. I doubt I was able to observe him as he would be during a regular day, completely in his regular zone. Allowing for that, his trading was very consistent. I was surprised at how he was working in many of the same areas I was, since we use much different methodologies. I got a chance to observe his management process, which was as he described. Again, he applied it quite consistently, and as I asked questions, he gave me answers (most of which I had already figured out on my own, but wanted to confirm), and I was able to follow along and draw the conclusions for myself at each point along the trade.

He called out signals in advance, and trades that he took, with fills, stops, and exits as they happened. Everything I saw was timely and consistent with the market. For the most part our market bias at any given time was on the same side. I did not keep track, via a 'scorecard', to see if he was up, or by how much, when we quit, and I didn't ask him. I was more interested in seeing him trade, getting the gist of his methodology, and just getting a feel for whether or not he was going to be profitable. Overall, I would say he finished up on the day, and seemed to do pretty well. He didn't seem to overtrade, and took only areas he was watching ahead of time. I got the impression of someone working in a style similar to mine, a slow methodical grind, just attempting to work the methodology over and over.

I won't be able to address any claims made about specific rates of return, and even if I could, it's not my place to, so I wouldn't. There is no way to tell from one session what a person does, when not encumbered by being watched and asked questions and such, over time. Some days a given trader may lose money, but be a very successful trader overall, and some days unsuccessful traders do well, and conclusions can't be drawn from small data sets. I have no idea how much money hunterone makes, and I don't think that should be the topic of this thread. I will say that he appears to have a methodology he knows well, and he appears to apply it consistently in real time, by voice, so no 'lag time' you can have with typed chats. He explains pretty much where he is looking and right when he is in, so it was easy for me to follow along. I would be surprised if he wasn't consistently profitable, but understand I'm making that comment after only one observation.

Overall, it was a fun time watching another trader trade, and we may set something up at some point with (I don't like to post links without permission, but they are the main remote computer viewing place online) so I can see his screens as he trades. We'll see. I think he's done a lot for everyone so far, and I don't want to keep pushing for more. What any new trader should take from this is a reiteration of the importance of following a plan consistently, being slow and steady and taking just the best setups, and doing the work to achieve consistency.

Thanks, hunterone, I had a good time.
Originally posted by pips2007

the best trader I ever came across was a guy by the name of

TRADERGOD. He had a now defunct.

I came to know him thru a trading acquaitance in Dec 2006..unfortunately. My trader acquaintance got to know him in June 2006.

Tradergod started an account with $10,000 on Jan 1, 2006. On his websites he had a daily log of his winnings and losses. NO Bull****...he was honest.

He would enter a trade with 2.5 trade a day..and this trade would either stop him out or give him 10-20-25 close. He knew his stuff.

Now, On Jan 1, 2006 he started his acct with 10,000 and trade 2 lots ES. By the time Sept 1 2006 came by his ACCT WAS NOW NEARLY $225,000...He MADE OVER 2,000 PERCENT IN A SPAN OF 9 MONTHS AND WAS NOW TRADING 45 CONTRACTS with ONE trade max 2 trades a day if he got stopped out. There is NO other TRADER I have come across with such confidence and astutness that would run 45 contracts the whole day....but he started with 2 and added 1 for every 5,000 he made...this guy was AMAZING.

He was truly amazing...My trader friend from June 2006 till Sept 2006 made so much money....he could not believe it...set and forget...

Then he pushed off to get married in Sept 2006 and refunded peoples money who paid in advance for his subscription..real honest guy...subs were ONLY $60 A WEEK...

He came back in latter part of Dec 2006 and by early Jan 2007 closed shop as he was taken by some big fund or the like...He just stated he got an offer he could not refuse.

NO one I have come across has come close to his abilities...and all this for only $60 a week..he was well worth it..pity I did not come across him in Jan 2006....I would have made a killing.

Funny...he never had any courses to sell etc. He take my calls and see if they make money. He told in an email as I asked him did he have a course to sell. He told me he would never divulge his method to anyone for any amount of money and to only pay for calls never courses.

This from a guy who made nearly 2,500 percent in 9 months. Proof was his daily calls and his log on bull**** or cheating. Can't say that abt two many people.

And thats my motto I learned from for calls not courses. Its worked real well for me.

Wherever you are TraderGod...Happy Thanksgiving.

The end.

Remarkable man TRADERGOD. Too bad he dissappeared. Maybe he went back to TRADERHEAVEN.

My recollection of the market during that time 9 month timeframe makes this performance hard to believe. The reason is that a 10 point move was not a common occurrence, let alone 20 or 30. What did he do on days that didn't close with those gains? You say he held the position all day and closed them out at the end of the regular session, correct?

Did you keep a record of the performance? Can you post it here?
Mr. Carcanaques,

No I do not have a record or log. It was on the website and I did print them out then...don't know if I still have them around. But, I'm not trying to prove anything, just telling you a fact.

Dig around and you will find what I'm telling you is the truth.

Well I cannot speak for your recollection but the fact of Tradergod trading prowess is 100% true. I have no reason to fabricate it and I even tell you I signed with him only in 2 or 3 week of Dec 2006 and I had 3 or 3 1/2 weeks with the guy. Best $60.00 a week I ever spent.

But if you are trying to be sarcastic..then you are only used to taking calls from losing traders...these comprise 95% of the people giving trading calls. But he was the real deal.

Some days he would end up with a -2.5 pts his stop loss, other days he would make 10 or 20 pts or 8. Everyday varied. Yes he would enter a trade usually afer 10 est. He would text well before hand this trade and stop loss...always max 2.5 pts. If he got stopped out he had a 45 minute no trade rule. His was one trade a day called usually after 10 est and if stopped out then he would wait 45 minutes before he would contemplate another trade. Max was 2 trades a day.

You may find it hard to believe, but it was all true. Every day we knew his trade or trades and at the close of trading he would post his pts gain or loss and running total of his account. There was no bullsh*t.

My trader acquaitance came to know about him apparently ( I cannot verify this) from a Yahoo group forum..this guy TraderGod did not advertise like the rest of the 'gurus.'

So if he won that day you would see opening balance his pts he made that day or loss and his closing balance. If he lost, his closing balance would reflect the loss. His trades were texted well in advance of the price hitting there. I'm not sure if he held the trade all the time till close..sometimes maybe 3:00 sometimes maybe 3:30 I started with him in 2/3rd week of Dec 2006...only had 3 weeks with him before he moved on.

Nonetheless, he was an excellent trader, best of the I have seen to date and his trading sytle matched mine. He got you pts the easy way. Set and forget.

Now If I started with him in Jan. 2006 - ( my starting acct was $25,000 but I started real trading in May 2006) his was only $10,000 and he started trading 2 contracts on Jan 1, 2006- My account would have been up not 2,500% by Sept 2006, but probably close to 1,500%.

Most people cannot fathom this...nor could I..because if you are only used to trading losers calls and taking losers courses thats all you know....losing.
Thanks Jim and Hunterone. I thinks it's great that you folks hooked up.
It seems that Hunterone is the real deal, a nice person and gives of his time freely. If anyone wants to "hear" what a real trader is thinking then perhaps he will skype with them too.

I "fired up" skype two days ago but have some incoming sound issues. I did try out the "send a file" feature which works quite well even on large files. A good substitute for those with email limitations etc...perhaps some day we can get a group of us from the forum together and share ideas as they unfold in real time.

Thanks for sharing that review with us.

I second what Bruce said. Thanks for sharing your experiences Jim and Hunterone.

pips2007: Mr Carcanaques was baiting you. He's been locked out of the forum as he was last time he pulled this stunt.
Jim, you said you where both watching the same areas. I assume you both use DIFFERENT methods of trading. My question is this:

Did you find these trades worked out better then the trades where you didn't have confluence of your numbers?

Bruce M,

Yes, our methods are completely different. As far as your question, the 'sample size' was way too small to draw any reasonable conclusions as far as if there was a synergy when both methods lined up, hence yielding better results.
Originally posted by pips2007


Another easy method is to see the range for the week..last 3 weeks or if it went up 30-60 pts that all likelihood it will do only 2 things go up or down for the week. So if the range was 50 pts for the last week try to get only half....25 pts for the week...or even 10. It really is simple if you keep it SIMPLE and just sell or buy at the extremes and all the time...but very few do it.

sounds like KingFish's method.
<<Sounds like KingFish's method>>

So is that a good or a bad sign ? I mostly read horrible things about KF, but for some reason his room continues to be quite full on Paltalk, can't all be dummies in there, can they ?
I consistently profit from futures/futures options, but it took me a long time to figure out the best way for me to do so.

While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.

Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.

I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.

Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.

That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.

A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.