Does anyone really make money trading futures?
Does anyone really make money trading futures?
I am just wondering.
I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.
I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.
For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.
I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.
Thanks in advance for any response.
I am just wondering.
I know I don't. I have tried all the indicators and the chat room gurus, and none of them make money.
I have a suspicion that a lot of the chat rooms for emini trading are just for hobbyists and market enthusiasts and not for serious traders trying to make a business out of trading.
For any new traders out there please be very cautious of paying anyone to mentor you or signing up for training or a chat room. From what I have seen the only people making money in these deals is the mentor, the chat room owner or the author of the training manual.
I would love to hear from you if you are a successful trader making 20% off your account or better over the past year. I know only 5 to 10 percent of traders are supposed to be successful, but I am beginning to think that zero percent of traders are successful over the long haul. Certainly anyone can have a streak of luck and rack up a few good months where they dramatically increase their account size, but these people are normally big risk takers and eventually they blow out their accounts by taking the exact same risks that help double their accounts in the first place.
Thanks in advance for any response.
I completely agree. Teaching a discretionary method is very difficult.
Mark Douglas in his book Trading in the Zone discusses what you have just said in great detail. He emphasizes that there is no way that you can tell if a trade that you take is going to be profitable or not. All you know is that a series of trades using that strategy will result in net profitability.
Mark Douglas in his book Trading in the Zone discusses what you have just said in great detail. He emphasizes that there is no way that you can tell if a trade that you take is going to be profitable or not. All you know is that a series of trades using that strategy will result in net profitability.
voodoo I dont mind your questions at all. I didnt know about collective2 it looks interesting. As I said before I am not a vendor. You havent and wont ever see me advertising anything about trading.
To review I called and traded live to a room of 15 or so last time while answering questions and while answering e-mails and sending out email trades to others who had trouble hearing me . It was very hectic not all my normal trading routine and the people that took the trades made money. People asked me to teach them I said ok. thats the end of it. I dont intend to do it again.
Daytrading there maybe a misunderstanding. My methods are not discretionary. This is the point I am trying to make.
I am being simple here.As an example.
A Fib 50% retracement can be a strong trade. How do you know it is going to be a strong trade or after we pause at 50% the market is just going to head through maybe to the otherside of the range. Do you just take all 50% fibs and hope for the best? What I have is a confirmation method to tell me if I should take the trade or not. The confirmation is more than just area confluence. So what I do is first I detrmine trend and what I expect the market to do next. Then I identify the possible areas of a good trades before we reach those areas. Then as we approach the area's I look to see if my entry charts are giving me a confirmation signal that indeed what I expect to happen at a given area is indeed going to happen. If I get confirmation I take the trade. If I dont then I dont take the trade. I dont think this is discretionary
At times,and I did this when I was calling trades, price action tells me that even though I am getting a signal the trade may fail. This I think is discretionary and is something that comes over time by observing price action at given points and signals but it is teachable because there are some specific patterns that occur that tell you price will keep going in the direction counter to your trade so you can teach these patterns as well.
To review I called and traded live to a room of 15 or so last time while answering questions and while answering e-mails and sending out email trades to others who had trouble hearing me . It was very hectic not all my normal trading routine and the people that took the trades made money. People asked me to teach them I said ok. thats the end of it. I dont intend to do it again.
Daytrading there maybe a misunderstanding. My methods are not discretionary. This is the point I am trying to make.
I am being simple here.As an example.
A Fib 50% retracement can be a strong trade. How do you know it is going to be a strong trade or after we pause at 50% the market is just going to head through maybe to the otherside of the range. Do you just take all 50% fibs and hope for the best? What I have is a confirmation method to tell me if I should take the trade or not. The confirmation is more than just area confluence. So what I do is first I detrmine trend and what I expect the market to do next. Then I identify the possible areas of a good trades before we reach those areas. Then as we approach the area's I look to see if my entry charts are giving me a confirmation signal that indeed what I expect to happen at a given area is indeed going to happen. If I get confirmation I take the trade. If I dont then I dont take the trade. I dont think this is discretionary
At times,and I did this when I was calling trades, price action tells me that even though I am getting a signal the trade may fail. This I think is discretionary and is something that comes over time by observing price action at given points and signals but it is teachable because there are some specific patterns that occur that tell you price will keep going in the direction counter to your trade so you can teach these patterns as well.
Hi hunterone,
I've been a lurker here for a short while and decided to register just so that I can make this post. I was really impressed by your post dated 10/29 where you addressed the "4 things needed to make money trading". I think you succinctly described what is required to become a successful trader - a perspective that I fully subscribe to. Although, I wasn't a part of your two trading demonstrations, I also appreciated the fact that you gave folks an opportunity to see you trade knowing that they would make comments on this forum.
Anyway, the reason for my post is that I wanted to ask you to expound on one of the four items you covered in the aforementioned post. Specifically, the one addressing "a way to interpret what action is happening when an area is hit", which you also wrote about in your last post above. Could you go into more details about what you do, perhaps even use an example and charts, if possible? I thought of sending you a PM, but thought that you are not concerned about sharing your ideas in public because of everything else you've already shared. I trade mostly using Market Profile. The way I monitor price action as price approaches a key reference area is by looking for divergences using a modified MACD (the only indicator I use), and using volume analysis and Time & Sales. This works well, but it is still an area where I need to improve, and I'm always looking for more insight from experienced traders.
By the way, I agree with BruceM's post about sharing trading information on this forum to fulfill your desire to help aspiring traders without missing out on any trading days. I'm sure that I, and other aspiring traders, would greatly appreciate your contributions.
Although, I directed this to hunterone, I would appreciate comments from anyone else as well. Thanks in advance.
I've been a lurker here for a short while and decided to register just so that I can make this post. I was really impressed by your post dated 10/29 where you addressed the "4 things needed to make money trading". I think you succinctly described what is required to become a successful trader - a perspective that I fully subscribe to. Although, I wasn't a part of your two trading demonstrations, I also appreciated the fact that you gave folks an opportunity to see you trade knowing that they would make comments on this forum.
Anyway, the reason for my post is that I wanted to ask you to expound on one of the four items you covered in the aforementioned post. Specifically, the one addressing "a way to interpret what action is happening when an area is hit", which you also wrote about in your last post above. Could you go into more details about what you do, perhaps even use an example and charts, if possible? I thought of sending you a PM, but thought that you are not concerned about sharing your ideas in public because of everything else you've already shared. I trade mostly using Market Profile. The way I monitor price action as price approaches a key reference area is by looking for divergences using a modified MACD (the only indicator I use), and using volume analysis and Time & Sales. This works well, but it is still an area where I need to improve, and I'm always looking for more insight from experienced traders.
By the way, I agree with BruceM's post about sharing trading information on this forum to fulfill your desire to help aspiring traders without missing out on any trading days. I'm sure that I, and other aspiring traders, would greatly appreciate your contributions.
Although, I directed this to hunterone, I would appreciate comments from anyone else as well. Thanks in advance.
quote:
Originally posted by pips2007
Nonetheless, he was an excellent trader, best of the lot..best I have seen to date and his trading sytle matched mine. He got you pts the easy way. Set and forget.
I would really like to hear more about this tradergod person. Do you have any more stories to tell about him, anything at all?
Denali, I am not sure what I can add to what you do. I dont use the MACD but I do use divergence. The best thing to do is start with trend. What is the current short term trend and then recognize the longer time frame trends. Read the market and figure out what you are seeing and what you expect to happen. Expectation is key. Then look for the expected price action to happen at your expected area ,confirm with your MACD divergence then take the trade.
Monday for example opened with a clear down trend so the expectation was for an attempt to find a price from which the market would attempt a retracement. You expected that retracement to fail and continue short. So you would be looking for a logical point for the retracement to fail and when you got a confirming signal in the area of that point you would have shorted. As a MP trader you would be looking for a test and failure of the VAL,single prints or the POC. Also never try to pick a bottom or a turn. The market must prove to you the trend has changed and a bottom is in.
Monday for example opened with a clear down trend so the expectation was for an attempt to find a price from which the market would attempt a retracement. You expected that retracement to fail and continue short. So you would be looking for a logical point for the retracement to fail and when you got a confirming signal in the area of that point you would have shorted. As a MP trader you would be looking for a test and failure of the VAL,single prints or the POC. Also never try to pick a bottom or a turn. The market must prove to you the trend has changed and a bottom is in.
quote:
Originally posted by ghost_7
quote:
Originally posted by pips2007
Nonetheless, he was an excellent trader, best of the lot..best I have seen to date and his trading sytle matched mine. He got you pts the easy way. Set and forget.
I would really like to hear more about this tradergod person. Do you have any more stories to tell about him, anything at all?
I think he changed his name to H. Grail
sorry, VAL, Single Print, and POC..??? Please explain these as am still trying to learn some of the terms and acronyms. If I was guessing I would think POC is for Price Oscilation(sp)Change?
Thanks
Bart
Thanks
Bart
Bart: They're explained in the Glossary.
Thank you
Good news for those that have asked. My trading partner from my Skype room wants to join in so we are going to call trades in the paltalk room next week for a full week. He is without a doubt an expert with median lines among other things.
We will be doing exactly what we do when we are trading daily together. We use different methods to trade but usually our strong trades come at the same areas. We will not be teaching.
We will answer questions.
I found that after teaching some people what my partner told me was true. Pulling the trigger is the biggest problem traders face regardless of the trading method. This week should provide a great deal of insight into how money making traders pull the trigger.
The paltalk room is ES Trading Today and we will be there beginning Monday running till Friday.
We will be doing exactly what we do when we are trading daily together. We use different methods to trade but usually our strong trades come at the same areas. We will not be teaching.
We will answer questions.
I found that after teaching some people what my partner told me was true. Pulling the trigger is the biggest problem traders face regardless of the trading method. This week should provide a great deal of insight into how money making traders pull the trigger.
The paltalk room is ES Trading Today and we will be there beginning Monday running till Friday.
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I consistently profit from futures/futures options, but it took me a long time to figure out the best way for me to do so.
While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.
Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.
I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.
Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.
That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.
A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.
-PDG
While a set of trading rules is very important, I have found that it is just as, maybe even MORE important, to develop "trading callouses" from getting your butt handed to you repeatedly along the way.
Here's the thing: Any set of rules will only work until they don't. It is normal human psychology that there will come a time (again and again) where you deviate from the rules because A) you have had a string of losses, B) you have had a string of wins and now you have a loss and can't believe you're really supposed to "lose this one," C) you get greedy, D) you get scared for whatever reason, or E) any one of a thousand other things that will cause you to screw up.
I had ups and downs for many years until I thought I had it figured out and had a couple of years of really solid profits. I had my own private island picked out :) (not really, but I did have a condo in mind O/N an island). Then came the financial crisis of 2008 and I learned that while I had a generally good strategy, because times were good I had not developed an appropriate risk control system.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars later... (and that didn't take long at all!) I learned the hard way that my strategy was woefully inadequate when the unexpected happened. It took me a while to brush myself off, but eventually I did.
Since sometime in 2009 my cumulative returns are somewhere around 450%. Over the past 9 years I've found that proper risk control continues to be where I tend to fall short, so I've had some choppiness during this time. About two years ago I tightened things up some more to try to make for a smoother equity curve... this mean that, theoretically, my losing months should NOT be as large as in the past, but my winning months will also not be as large as they were in the past.
That's okay though -- even my cumulative success over the past 9-10 years, when averaged out by month, comes to < 2% a month. I suspect that 2% a month, long term, is about where I'll stay, but the ride should just be smoother along the way.
A return like that may or may not be enough for a particular person--it is for me--but keep in mind if you want to shoot for the stars there's a really good chance you're going to eventually crash land back on earth. It really does come down to being adequately capitalized and having a reasonable return be "enough" for you. By all means, trade even with a small account, because you need that experience to get to the point where you'll know what you're doing when you have the larger account. Just don't expect to turn a tiny account into a massive one along the way or you will probably be disappointed.
-PDG
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