I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:


We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.

cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...

jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.

How come we don't hear from you when ninja is down 2grand in a day...I think you have an interest in the sales??? Either that or you are a delusional trader, you can't think happy thoughts when your gurus have 2grand draw downs, this is life not some make believe movie...focus on the whole picture not just one day. Be realistic not positive.
The only negativity is the unwillingness of the "Viper Boys" to be open and honest in their presentation. Show the whole story not just cheerleading the wins, if a vendor is only willing to come here and show a one sided portrayal of their success then they will find the same hard questions and critics. It is a crime to sell a trading method to someone who is desperate for success without showing them the good and the bad. Of course, folks blinded by the dream of quick riches are unlikely to be objective and their opinions are worth as much as the trading accounts of the gurus they follow.
They just put out the pricing....$299 per month.
Originally posted by thetaxman

They just put out the pricing....$299 per month.

Highway robbery.

There is a much better auto-trade system in the market--GINA-- created by Rob Mitchell of GForceTraders and it's $149/month.

It sports an excellent track record and is traded by the developers, too. It is one of the best performing systems as rated by Stryker.

My suggestion is to wait a year from now to see if this Viper system can prove itself over time before laying out $299 a month. These two goofballs--Charles and Gary--must be living large to charge that amount to pay their bills off the backs of struggling traders.

Note: I have no relationship with GForceTraders.

before saying something to the colleagues could be better to look around and read the Expert opinion and report, isn't it ?

I dont say you are wrong but suggesting choises to others in a condition like this it could put reputation in balance...




I read that thread before I posted here and it doesn't change my opinion one iota.

I have no idea why you think the members of Elite Trader are 'Experts" at anything other than telling an occasional good joke or two.
With respect to the GINA system mentioned:

I do not consider using 15 point stops in the ES an improvement.

Using the data in the "official" Striker results table for GINA:

Average Win = $ 206

Average Loss = - $ 695

Avg. W/L ratio = 0.30

Average Trade = + $ 57

Expectancy = + $ 53
I don't wish to turn this into a Gina thread, but the stop has been reduced to 12. A tight stop eliminates the monster winners Gina cranks out.

That is not for everyone, especially traders with small bankrolls who can't sustain a period of 3-4 stopouts. The fact is the system wins 80% of trades and its equity curve grows fairly steadily.

My main point was Gina is a consistent money maker with a track record.

Auto Viper is not, yet cost almost twice as much.

For those who don't care to learn to trade successfully on their own and seek an auto traded strategy, there are MANY more options than the untested Viper.

Check out some of the best at FuturesTruth or Collective2.

THE STRIKER REPORT Sept. 30th,2009



edit: fixed link.
The AutoTrader script, DiamondBack got hammered so badly on Thursday and Friday that Viper Systems has recommended not trading it this week until they re-script it.
Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.