I started this topic because some questions I asked and answers I got from cba33558 were getting lost in this rather extensive topic here:


We started this discussion on page 30 of that thread, and I thought I'd move it here so we can continue it (since no one took me up on my offer to start this thread). I'll cut and paste the three posts made after cba33558 posted a chart about eminiviper.com

From 6/8/09:

jimkane: Hey, cba. I checked out that EminiViper.com page. Very impressive. Seems like they don't have any losing days, or even losing trades (or do they not post those?). Is that so? If not, how many stop outs or false signals are you seeing on an average day? It doesn't mean much to me to see winners, I am more interested in the losers I have to take to get those winners. Also, are you the owner of EminiViper.com, or do you work for them? If not, what is your association? If I don't ask, that will likely be the first question from everyone else. Thanks.

cba33558: Hey Jim -

Thanks for visiting the Web site and offering your constructive questions and feedback...

The videos are intended to show the NQ Emini trades that are triggered by the system each day. Currently the system is designed to issue trade signals only the Nasdaq Emini. In addition to the Viper indicator, the system uses a combination of guidance charts and a trading chart that very rarely has a losing trade. With all of these constraints, it should be noted however, that there are not many signals that trigger in any given trading day. Depending on the volatility - usually one or two trades may trigger - a busy day would be 3 trades.

The entire trading system is not shown in the videos; however, all of the details regarding these trade signals are shown in an eBook and training videos. The actual trade signals themselves are analyzed in real-time in the live Webinars. The entire goal of this system was accuracy - not catching every trade.

In answer to your other question, I have been a trader for a little over 12 years now, I am a partner in the firm; and was involved extensively in developing, actively trading and back-testing the Viper system over the past year and a half.

Once again, thank you for your input, and I look forward to opportunity of respectfully participating in your Forum...

jimkane: Thanks for the response, cba. Wow, those are some incredibly impressive stats. Given these are intraday trend trades, it's almost incomprehensible to me. My style is intraday trend trading, and with the 3 to 5 to 1 or sometimes higher reward/risk profiles I'm happy anywhere in the 30% to 50% winners range.

I have a few more questions. Is there a way to follow along and see live trade signals the moment they develop, on a trial basis? The web site mentions visiting a live webinar for a day. Would one see live signals in time to act, or only after they have started? What if no signals are generated that day, can someone try another day? It's very hard to evaluate a system with a one-day trial, especially one that generates only a few signals.

Next, what is the difference between live webinars and live trading room, as far as signals given in real-time? Also, if one signs on to your room and gets all that training, does that do any good without the software? What is the cost of the license, since the website doesn't specify this? I'd love to follow along real-time for a period and evaluate your system, but I'm not sure you have any provisions where I could do that without laying out money first. Again, if I don't ask all these questions, someone else will. Since I'm probably the longest-winded character at this forum, I figured I'd just get the ball rolling. It's not often I hear about a system that has almost no losers at all.

Lastly, if we go much further with this discussion it may be appropriate to move it from this thread to one you or someone else could create in Trading Advisory Services.
Viper trading is good and I like their vwarp. However, i never made money using the system.

I would like to learn how the system works instead of waiting for the signal to be called out
Let's see now. They have removed NQ, TF, ES, kept 6E, 6B and have added DX, CL and 2 others I cannot remember.

All previous autotrader products except for Autoassist and Scalper (of which you never hear of anymore) have been removed.

Any quess as to how long this latest configuration will last????
First let me be clear. I don't received anything from Viper trading except what i pay for. I don't work for them.

For jgreene - is it wrong to look for the products that are trading the best. Maybe you can make consistent money trading ES for the last 3 months but I can't. 6B, 6E and CL have been trending and providing some good trades. Personally I like looking at a variety of products.

Can someone recommend a site? I'm not a very good trader and I need some good instruction. So far Gary at Viper Trading has been doing fairly well and is calling entries and exits but I still need more help.
Let's see now. More new autotrader strategies and no or little reference to the past ones. It appears when one does now work on a consistent basis a new one is introduced. They hawk these things everyday in the trading room.
They are now using a system called Breakout and a new autotrader called Breakoutscalper.

This make about the 5th iteration of their manual trading system.

Anybody still with them?

Originally posted by jgreene

They are now using a system called Breakout and a new autotrader called Breakoutscalper.

This make about the 5th iteration of their manual trading system.

Anybody still with them?


I can't imagine anyone still paying these carnies if they have been with them for a couple of months. In time, the new names, better indicators, breakthrough discoveries, and other happy horse manure techniques should grate on even the most pathetic devotee who continues to believe these goofballs can make anyone money.

Gary; Ex shoe salesman who met Charles in a trade room and said if these yahoos can rip off traders like us, we should be able to do the same thing. In another lifetime, he would have been the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. (Gary is still in Okalahoma, however.)

Charles: Ego freak salesman who got booted from a reputable software firm then migrated to trading after running out of unemployment checks. Idiotic, but still smart enough not to believe his own BS. Couldn't out-trade Michael Jackson.

Rich: Perhaps the lamest of all. Wannabee autotrade developer who thought Elliot (of the Wave cult) invented God, mankind, and infinite riches if one just believed that an insect had eight legs was the Holy Grail to understanding the markets. Searched for a marketing partner to sell his wares and couldn't find one dishonest enough until he met Charles through NT.

A menage a trois made in heaven, but not worthy of anyone's money.

Stay far away from this disease known as Viper.
Agree with you phantasmagoria. I too was suckered into Charles & Gary's side show for a few months. I just couldnt take it anymore. Side note, Charles always comes into the room late, and always makes a grand entrance like he is the king and everyone needs to bow to him, especially Gary. And when Charles does stay in the room, he always needs to make a comment that he needs to step away numerous times during the session. There was and never will be a day in which Charles can stay in the room for the entire time. This was so annoying to me.

This system is excellent for anyone who wants a huge draw down or an initial $200-$400 stop loss, LOL.

Also, When Gary trades, he usually trades 1 contract. I assume even he doesnt truly believe his indicators. And when he takes a stop out, he gets into his revenge-trade mood and trades with 5-10 contracts to get his loss back. But he will only tell you that he traded with so many contracts if he wins on the trade. As far as Charles, I only see him on his sim account, I never once saw his live account. For $299-$399/mt, why would Charles risk his trading account money, when he is scamming over 200 members for this price!

STAY AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are now boasting new products such as authtraderelite and another less expensive autotrader.
They state over night trading is generating large wins to the tune of $1,000 +.
Anyone still a member and getting these results?
I am in a trial and they will not say if it is live. I think they
use it on all currencies and oil and several others and only show the ones who made a profit.

Big rip off
All their AutoTrader Strategies always have a huge initial Stop Loss. So if you can stomach the huge trailing stop, and not touch the trade and just let it go, there will be some days you will be in profit $1K, but be prepared on chop or ranging days, your account will be chopped out $300-$400 at a time......

Originally posted by jgreene

They are now boasting new products such as authtraderelite and another less expensive autotrader.
They state over night trading is generating large wins to the tune of $1,000 +.
Anyone still a member and getting these results?
Sorry this reply is 2-years late but I just joined the forum.

I know from personal experience that GoToMeeting and GoToWebinar default to showing all users and all comments unless specifically disabled by the Host.

If they're saying what was reported that's a blatant lie.