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Traders International = SCAM ARTISTS

Traders International (TI) is a SCAM and RIP OFF!!!!!!

Yes, I might as well where a dunce hat and sit on a donkey. These guys are the biggest scam artists on earth. I have been trading with them since April 09 and have yet to make any damn money from their bullsh*t indicators. I have done nothing but lose money with these idiots since i started. It's a f*cking crab shoot. Lets just say that I can flip a coin and make better guesses.

Here is how they count their points gained:
1. When I started, they used to show the ninja trader dom while the moderator trader and made calls. We could see the entry and exits. Now they have taken the dom off the screen completely. Their excuse at first was that it kept crashing, but now it's because they don't want to show it. Instead they just want to show us their sh*tty charts.

2. They use the ninja trader dome (which I really like by the way) and the damn thing is in sim and the jerk offs try to convince you that its live. If it were live the account number would be showing. How stupid do you think we are? Well, I guess pretty stupid for signing up with them.

3. When they showed the dome while we were trading, the moderator would always try and get away with a losing trade by saying that you should have taken your profits when I told you at 1-4 ticks, which is horse sh*t since he said to go for 2 points profit and loss. Let me give an example of how they trade:
1. You have to remember that they are supposed to give you clear
entry and exit points (which they don't) and lately the
moderator supposedly makes a call and oh guess what,
"the mic was off again, you guys didn't hear me make that 3
point trade?" This has happened 4 times in the last month
since they took the trading dome off the screen. Also, the
rooms are in privatized mode so that you can't see what other
people are saying or complaining about. Only the Signal
room, previously called the Pro room, allows you to see what
others are saying; and it's funny that the same people
(about 10) consistently post profits. The rest of the time the
moderator is yelling at people and telling them that it's
their fault that they got out too early or too late. - It goes
something like this: "We are only going for nibbles here
traders (1-2 points)." And when you are in the trade: "I
suggest you take profits here at 1-2 ticks because this is not
going anywhere" or "you should get out now at about 1 point
loss, oh wait, hang on let me look at the price action
again." some people end up getting out at 1 point loss (only
to have the market turn around and actually go in their favor)
and the others get out at 2 point loss. God forbid if it goes
in his favor and you say something, because he will rip you a
new hole. He basically says "It's your fault, you should have
stayed in the trade longer" EVEN AFTER HE SAID TO GET OUT.
2. he starts with 2-3 contracts.
3. he takes 1 out at 1 point and usually the other 2 at
2 points, but sometimes he uses the 3rd contract to ride the
wave just in case it keeps going (90% of the time it
4. Now that the trading dome is gone, we can't even see when he
is getting in and out. He makes a call and everyone gets in
at that price and he will tell you, oh I got in at a tick
or two better for some reasons. You know what I get it,
slippage happens, but who the hell are you kidding. This crap
is happening more and more now that the trading dome is not
5. Here is the real kicker in the butt. After telling people to
get out at 2 points, he leaves the remaining contract on the
table just in case it does go up, and guess what they post on
the site for the world to see? A 2.5 POINT PROFIT. Lets break
it down here: One 1 point profit + One 2 point profit + One 2
point loss = 1 point profit (you still have to take out $4.8
per contract for broker fees). Where the hell did they get 2.5
points from. I'll tell you, its from him letting that last
contract run longer, but what the hell? Didn't he just tell us
to get out? A lot of times the numbers on their site don't
even add up to what the actual profits where. They are wrong
%65 of the time on the calls. Thats worse than me flipping a
coin and making a call.
6. Don't even bother trading with them when it gets close to
options expiration. Good lord - ALL the calls are wrong. It
turns into a BUY HIGH and SELL LOW type of trading.

I'm going to start recording them on my computer (I wish I had done this sooner, before they took the trading dome off) so that I can hopefully get my credit card company to reverse the charges. As of yet, my credit card company will not refund me and they will not stop further charges.

Take my word on this, DO NOT SIGN UP WITH THIS COMPANY. TRADERS INTERNATIONAL IS A SCAM AND RIP OFF. Oh, I forgot to mention this, their "PROPRIETARY TRAINING" or what ever the hell they called it is crap. There is a lot more and better free info on than these idiots provide. What they provide is not even training. A kid can put better information together.

And by the way, don't bother questioning them on why they made a call. Whether it was a good call or a bad call, it doesn't matter, the moderator will only yell at you and tell you he will not explain it to you. WTF?

I'm leaving out a lot, but I'm tired of typing all the crap that is wrong with TI.



I stopped trading with them in May of 2009 and have made my own trading signals that work 75% of the time. If you want to learn about trading, go to the video feed is free, but if you want to see them daytrading, just sign up for the 2 week free trial. I have been with them a month before I started with TI and made lots of money. Then came TI and I have now blown my account way under the $25k daytrading limit. Thats why I made my own signals so I can work my way back up so I can start trading stocks again.

Screw playing with the FUTURES as an only source of income. It is harder and more dangerous to play than stocks.

I have warned you....please don't make my mistake. I don't know where else to post this thing to get the word out, but I will be posting it to as many places as I can.

Did anyone watch the live event today? How did it go?
Screwed Royally and Niel Zep appear to be one and the same. Monkey Meat falls in the same category but appears to be a separate individual.

I can say with certainty that any intelligent person reading their posts would never take anything they have to say seriously.

Compare their posts to Jim Kane or PT emini or The Mod. Not even in the same universe in terms of content, intelligence, let alone decency.

Where do crude 4-letter words fit publically posted anywhere on the internet? What does it say about anyone using them publically in their posting? It speaks to character, or the lack of it. It speaks to ethics or the lack of it.

And it speaks to intelligence or the clear and complete lack of it.

So it is more than clear that any intelligent person reading this thread would never take seriously the opinions of screwed royally, niel zep or monkey meat.

Compare those monikers to Jim Kane, PT emini or The Mod (Moderator). What more needs to be said.

So I am beyond confident that any intelligent people are completely turned off by crude posts that have no place in any place that is public.

I am beyond confident that no intelligent person anywhere would register or believe let alone follow what these crude un-business-like people have posted.

My biggest question does anyone think they will be taken seriously by being so crude and un-business like?

To 'screwed royally/niel zep' who appear to be one and the same.

It would be impossible for a company to remain in business for 11 years and be recognized by top business and stock publications as one of the best training companies in the world if no one made money.

Your brain has flat-lined and you are on life support or you have had a frontal lobotomy.

You claim 'no one' has made any money. Please post where you got the list of the thousands upon thousands (who are happy successful traders) who have purchased the TI course over the last 11 years?

Then of course how long did it take you to call or email all of them to find out none had succeeded?

When you write a post like you have, how is it that like looking in the mirror and being forced to see what you see, that you do not read what you have written and are not immediately struck with your own stupidity?

Kicked out of the Pro Room? Never happened. Remember I have been in these rooms everyday for a very long time. Not accepted into the room? Absolutely true. Not every trader can go into the Pro Room. There is a whole process of being vetted and prepared for it that takes place to make sure people who should not be in an advanced trading room are not in that room.

Trading plan? Another of your crude posts showing anger. (At who? Obviously yourself).

Again how can you show yourself to be so incapable of trading anything anywhere and that you do not have a clue about what goes on?

You don't want to follow TI's trading plan?? For 11 years no student has ever followed TI's trading plan. Why? Because there is none.

When TI refers to a trading plan it is the one YOU create after months of study, more months of trading in simulation for as long as it takes to get ready to trade live.

TI shows a sample plan in the course because students do not know what their plan should include. My plan is nothing like the sample. My plan comes from months of study, months of simulation.

It is what I am comfortable with. As is everyone' elses.
For the record, my initial response to 'screwed royally' was not to draw anyone to Traders International. I am a student/member not an employee.

There are 2 sides to a pancake. I presented the other side. A reasonable position to take.

I did considerable study and scrutiny in finding a training course (2 yrs.) and for me there was nothing to compare to TI and still isn't.

It was of course being in business for 11 years, being recognized by third parties with no vested interest such as top business and stock market publications and being in 14 countries that was so powerful for me that no other training company had behind them and still don't.

It was being able to tune in twice a week to a live trading demonstration with hundreds of others and witness the transparency of this company. When the founder of the company offers guest sessions where he trades live in front of many, it says a great deal. No other training company anywhere offers this kind of transparency or is willing to take this kind of risk.

What I think anyone reading this tread needs to register is that 1)trading is not for everyone and TI makes this point. 2)It is never the solution for someone in financial panic mode. I was but I had some things going for me that others in the same spot may not have. I am a pit bull by nature. I will work, study, learn 20 hrs. a day and sleep for 4. I am firmly entrenched in 'what you think about you bring about' so I did the very hard work of keeping myself emotionally and mentally where I had to be. And I follow instructions to the letter of the law. Precisely and exactly. 3)It is not a get rich scheme but for those suited to trading, success can be a reality.

And I think the obvious point is that you want to look at both sides of the picture, do your own thorough due dilligence for as long as it takes, and quite obviously disregard angry crude posts knowing these kinds of posters are either attempting to promote or get ready to promote their own businesses after attempting to attack a world-reknowned company or they are simply a part of the 'crazies' on the internet that go from chat room to chat room attempting to foment trouble. And always fail.

How can a company be in biz for 11 years and not make money LOL....Ever heard of Enron?
Don't get me wrong I think I.T. can and does make traders money. But its evil to take 5k+ from struggling traders, who are there own worst enemy when it comes to trading profits. I don't think anyone can start making money in discretionary trading right off the bat, there is a mental part to this game that can't be taught in any course that I know of. It seems to me there using the weakness of many to line there pockets in part (or whole) of there own inability to make profits in there own account long term. Many years ago when I was struggling. I could take an hour or 2 a week and show others live when I had a profit...problem is keeping it all day/week long. There is a certain level of trickery in taking 30min or an hour and showing new struggling traders how you can make 2 TF points. Why not show 11 years of audited returns??? That would persuade many of the naysayers, including me!
Livingwell ... I truly hope you're "living well" with your own trading. It would be instructional for all who visit this site if you could share more trading insight content (perhaps create another thread where you address this ... with a link from this site) ... especially related to how TI SPECIFICALLY impacted your trading. And I mean this in all seriousness as another trader out there along with all of us just trying to make it happen ... make a living, and then some!

Since you referenced me (among others) and any colorful language and other items in your diatribes, I can only say that I wish you well in your own trading and hope that you're making a f@cking @ssload of money. Seriously!

Thing is, messianic flavored loyalty and fervor expressed in any posts about this subject, this training company, is by nature suspect ... especially when taking in all of the posts of folks who've participated, in whatever capacity, with TI.

Lemme also let you know another thingy. I've been involved and interacted with trading education companies ... way beyond what most folks have experienced - period! I've also trained tons of folks myself in that one-on-one interaction. And that's spread over the past 20 years ... all the while I've generated 90%+ of my income from my own trading.

This reminds me of the VP debate between Benson and Quayle ... remember that famous response ... Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy.

I've run in those same trading-type circles ... and while I appreciate your commentary here in the spirit of sharing and decent free speech ... I also would state that TI is no Jack Kennedy.

Hell, maybe you are?!?

Peace, love and wild monkey-flips to ya,

brain washed disciples of their messiah..NOBODY BUY TI'S PRODUCT that teaches simple divergence for $7K and pay $299 a month. I repeat the only one that make money have money in their acct and use other products. BTW,living not well is another TI marketing cronie not a real trader...probably John Ford or one of those overnight Aussies with DELUSIONS OF GRANDEURS. LATER,KEEP RANTING AND PULLING IN THE NEWBIES WITH THEIR FEW DOLLARS IN A RIGGED GAME CALLED FUTURES.
I have to apologize for this being so long, but their is much to be said since I last posted a few months ago......

Well, after very long time i have finally checked this post again. To my amazement there are many really crazy people out there who are trying to say that I am not fit to trade and that i'm trying promote my own product.........

I got to the second page and I saw that seankelly63 and LivingWell have made their own crazy posts trying to berate me. Let me tell you 2 ignorant fools.... WHAT PRODUCT DID I PUT O/N MY POST THAT U ARE SAYING I AM TRYING TO PROMOTE....I MEAN SERIOUSLY, ARE YOU THAT RETARDED. Daytrading radio does not belong to me, I just follow the trader who owns the site. Another thing, I cant help that u are just retarded and cant see that what you posted are fees for people to advertise on his site. What the hell does that have to do with signing up for a $30 subscription that has a 2 week trial period to get your money back???????????

And another thing....what the hell does psychological fitness have to do with following someone else's calls?????????? I'll tell you, absolutely nothing. I said I traded with them for a short time and just kept losing..... I THINK 1 MONTH IS A LONG ENOUGH LOSING STREAK to see whether or not they are good. I don't think anyone who is sane would trade past that if they consistently kept losing money because of them in a market that in exploding. I am not stupid and I am more than emotionally fit; thats why I made my own signals and charts to trade the E-mini futures.....again what product am I trying to promote here????? Did I mention any names or prices or places to follow me. Seems very fishy that you think they are so good and keep promoting them and putting me down and falsely accusing me of trying to promote something.

By the way are you one of those perma-bears that keeps saying the market is going down still, just like one of those rejects on CNBC who call themselves analysts.

Just to let you know, I am well over the $25k daytrading limit thanks to traders international. In case u still don't understand, the daytrading rule applies to Day Trading Stocks.....

I am so tired of people like you 2 coming on these posts and trying to put people down for exposing the truth about their experiences. So why don't you run back to traders international and stop trying get people ripped off.

By the way LivingWell, what is my "agenda or vendetta". They ripped me off and I have posted my opinion for others to see. I made it detailed because that's what people can expect when they go to traders international. For you to sit there and type up a bunch of non-sense shows that you have no clue what you are talking about and are only trying to promote traders international. I never tried to promote anything and I'm still not going to. But, when I get ripped off, I will let the world know. It wasn't that I just traded 1 month and then quit. I followed them all the way till July 2009 and the results were still the same. How long and how much money do have to lose because of them to know that they are a scam????????? According to you I have to lose everything to see that profit you are talking about.

And about the 25k rule, Mr. Genius, that rule applies to trading STOCKS not the futures of any kind..... there goes to show how much you understand. So plz, do everyone a favor and stop posting crap.

Also, just because traders international is on a bunch of business bureau crap lists means absolutely nothing. They have covered their ass very very very well. The only recourse someone has is to post to websites like this in hopes of other people not making the same mistake.

I have given an account of what happened to me while I was trading with TI and I can tell you right now that anyone who is allowing their greed for money to get the better of them will get ripped off. That applies to anything in this world. So people please, please, please, follow what your gut tells you. IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS.

Lastley, if by posting my opinions of what i have experienced makes me sound like I have an "agenda" then i'm sorry. I'm only trying to keep others from making the same mistake that I did.

If I had listened to my gut, rather than my get rich quick side, I would have seen right at the start that there is a reason that these guys dont allow anyone to voice their opinion in the rooms. Even in the demo they hold every week for free. And guess what, next time you log into the demo, listen to how many times they try and convince you that there are too many people in the room and that they can not answer their questions. They try and make you feel that its an opportunity of a lifetime and you must get it now. WELL, there is no such thing. IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS.

And please don't let people like LivingWell influence you into doing what I did. There is no better way of making money in this market than to educate yourself.

I'll tell you this.....if you would like to start trading the e-mini futures, or any type of futures for that matter, you need to paper trade for a few months and make it realistic. Trade as if you were using your own money. If you wouldnt take the trade with real money then don't make the trade. Also, I have found through experience that you need to figure out what your max pain is on any loss on the trade with the number of contracts you are buying. I have found that for me, it is best to use 1 contract and my max pain is 10 points. I also average down when it goes against me by doubling every time I add. I know there are going to be people out there that are going to bash what I have just said in order to push their own opinion onto you.....but guess what, this is what works for me. I know about support and resistance and trendlines and all the market moving news, and it works for me. The details of how to trade like this are very intricate and would be hard for me to explain in this post. It is something that you will have to learn for yourself through experience. I am not saying this is what you should do, this is just to show you what I have learned from trading the e-mini futures for the past 8 months or so day in and day out.

People please, dont put your brains, or your money, in other peoples hands. You have to do the leg work in this world to get ahead and trading for a living is no exception. Do your research, do your homework, and don't believe people that tell you they will make you rich if you follow their trading (not to say they are all bad).

Oh and one more thing, DO NOT listen to those freakin news channels on TV. All they do is mess with your head. They keep putting fear in people and if I had a penny for every time these idiot analysts would come on TV, since March 2009 saying that "we have reached the top and that we are going to crash back down now," I'd be rich...I mean look at the market it has been climbing since march and these bastards are trying to call a top; guess what, the market does not go up in a straight line. Sorry, going off topic.

To all you annoying people that keep posting on here saying I am vindictive and have an agenda or am unfit to trade, I say this.... rot in hell because you are the type of person that got me to trade with TI and lose $20k. I have since stopped listening to people like you and taken control of my own finances and am happier than ever. Not to mention that I am actually making money. And no, I don't blindly listen to the people on daytrading radio and follow what they say. I do my own research....if I like the trade then I will trade it based on MY OWN knowledge, not because someone else says "Take this trade." My Friends - educate yourself and live your dreams. Don't let the nay sayers keep you from doing what you want in this life. Word of advice, if you get on a losing streak, step back and take a few days, or even weeks off, and regroup yourself. Learn from your mistakes. Try and understand what you did wrong and correct it. Start trading again when you have a clear mind. I can't totally bash TI, because if it were not for this experience I might have blown a lot more of my money down the road than what I did. This experience forced me to stop trading and take a long look at what I was doing wrong, and most importantly, learn the market.

To all you bashers, the truth is out there and you can not silence it with all your nonsense posts.
For all you new traders, watch videos like this


to learn about trading. He has about 300 videos. There are other videos I like on youtube as well, you just need to sift through them and keep learning. There is plenty of free information out there that you can watch or read to learn how to trade. You just have to be willing to do the research and quit relying on other people to do the leg work for you. Don't come into this business thinking you will make millions or even thousands by letting someone else do all the thinking for you.

By the way, traders international's training kit is a joke. When I opened up their help files, it made me laugh. It does not do much other than spit out only a few vocabulary words. And I mean only a few. I'm paying you guys $10K to give me a dictionary term? are you kidding me? And no videos of intructional material like the one I linked to in this post. And you want me to act like it was worth $10K. You have to be nuts!!!!!

LivingWell, I don't even know what to say to your last comment about me and another poster being the same person. I mean come on. The fact that after so many months other people are reading this post and posting things to it shows how much of rip off T.I. is!! If they were as good as they act like they are, the rooms would not be in privatized mode so others can see what is being said. And anyone who questions them would not feel like they are being ripped a new one.

I joined TI because I was promised CLEAR entry and exit signals. I received everything but that. If I'm paying an arm and a leg to a lawyer, I expect him to represent me well. This is no different. Why are we paying traders international so much money for so little, if any, return on our investment? You can't really expect to tell people things like "Get ready to bail" or "Get out where ever you can" and then allow your simulation trade to ride into profits and post that information as if it were traded that way. Then, turn around and get mad at and blame the traders for getting out with a loss. You actually think that people who are experienced with trading the futures are going to come to you guys and pay you money? Get real!!!!! Therefore traders international is a scam and rip off because it does not practice what it promises; and they know that the people that are joining them have little or no experience trading the futures. When you charge people that much money, you better have steps in place to walk beginners step by step through every process. Otherwise close that trash of a business and stop ripping people off. I learned the hard way.....the only way.... to trade futures; and that's by trial and error.

To anyone who wants to trade.....STOP... YOU WILL FAIL (you might get lucky for a while, but it will catch up to you). That is, if you don't do you homework and learn. You need to paper trade like you are trading real money. And if you dont know paper trade means - it means to trade in simulation mode with an online broker that gives you real-time quotes (not those 15-20 min delayed feeds). You should allow the simulator to have only the amount of money that you can invest to make it realistic. You will also need to learn to chart. The link I have posted above is only an example of the many helpful videos out there that are FREEEEEEEE. When you feel comfortable enough and you have made consistent profits in simulation mode, then and only then should you use real money.

You have been warned. Follow that advice or you will suffer the difficult consequences. I was lucky, because I had enough money to bounce back. For those of you who are new to trading and think you will make a living off of trading, you are in for a surprise. It's a dangerous game you are playing, so you better know what to do.

And please don't listen to those who are foolish enough to tell you that you can trade with less than $20K. It is very difficult. I have been there and done that. It took me forever to get back over the $25K day trading limit.

I made it a rule to trade only 1 contract for every 6 contracts that I could buy on the e-mini futures. OHHH, and a final bit of advice.....never, never, never, ever chase a move on the futures, ever. Unless you can handle a 10+ point pull back against you, because the market movers love to screw with your head.

Please, friends, I am begging you, don't make my mistakes. You new traders need to learn from our mistakes. If you listen and learn from our mistakes, I promise you, you will be profitable and you will enjoy this business, but if you want to be lazy and let other people do the thinking for you, do yourself a favor and go work in Corporate America.
I hope everyone is doing good and staying away from companies like Traders International. I have not traded for over 2 years now because a few weeks after I posted that comment in 2012, my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer and after a long struggle, he ended up passing away. Just wanted to update this post and show that what I posted was not fake. I have attached a pdf of my month end statement in Jan. 2012 to show anyone who doesn't understand what a real trade statement looks like or for any of you who didn't believe me when I said I was making way over 20k per month without the help of crooks like Traders International! I have also included a daily statement in pdf format as well and NO I'm not going to leave my name or account number on there. I always take out anything above $110k-$120k from my account. Taking money out above a certain limit you set for yourself is a must; hard to explain why, but it helps psychologically. Go and compare the statements that Traders International(TI) shows to fool people who are newbies into believing their lies. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried copying this or something similar to make their simulation trades look like real trades. This will be my last post here. Good luck, stop being sheep, and stop being lazy. Do the leg work required to teach yourself because the information is on the internet for free. You just have to find it and stop relying on other people to do the hard work for you.
Click link to access uploaded file:
Statement on 01252012.pdf

Click link to access uploaded file:
Statementon 01312012.pdf