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Traders International = SCAM ARTISTS

Traders International (TI) is a SCAM and RIP OFF!!!!!!

Yes, I might as well where a dunce hat and sit on a donkey. These guys are the biggest scam artists on earth. I have been trading with them since April 09 and have yet to make any damn money from their bullsh*t indicators. I have done nothing but lose money with these idiots since i started. It's a f*cking crab shoot. Lets just say that I can flip a coin and make better guesses.

Here is how they count their points gained:
1. When I started, they used to show the ninja trader dom while the moderator trader and made calls. We could see the entry and exits. Now they have taken the dom off the screen completely. Their excuse at first was that it kept crashing, but now it's because they don't want to show it. Instead they just want to show us their sh*tty charts.

2. They use the ninja trader dome (which I really like by the way) and the damn thing is in sim and the jerk offs try to convince you that its live. If it were live the account number would be showing. How stupid do you think we are? Well, I guess pretty stupid for signing up with them.

3. When they showed the dome while we were trading, the moderator would always try and get away with a losing trade by saying that you should have taken your profits when I told you at 1-4 ticks, which is horse sh*t since he said to go for 2 points profit and loss. Let me give an example of how they trade:
1. You have to remember that they are supposed to give you clear
entry and exit points (which they don't) and lately the
moderator supposedly makes a call and oh guess what,
"the mic was off again, you guys didn't hear me make that 3
point trade?" This has happened 4 times in the last month
since they took the trading dome off the screen. Also, the
rooms are in privatized mode so that you can't see what other
people are saying or complaining about. Only the Signal
room, previously called the Pro room, allows you to see what
others are saying; and it's funny that the same people
(about 10) consistently post profits. The rest of the time the
moderator is yelling at people and telling them that it's
their fault that they got out too early or too late. - It goes
something like this: "We are only going for nibbles here
traders (1-2 points)." And when you are in the trade: "I
suggest you take profits here at 1-2 ticks because this is not
going anywhere" or "you should get out now at about 1 point
loss, oh wait, hang on let me look at the price action
again." some people end up getting out at 1 point loss (only
to have the market turn around and actually go in their favor)
and the others get out at 2 point loss. God forbid if it goes
in his favor and you say something, because he will rip you a
new hole. He basically says "It's your fault, you should have
stayed in the trade longer" EVEN AFTER HE SAID TO GET OUT.
2. he starts with 2-3 contracts.
3. he takes 1 out at 1 point and usually the other 2 at
2 points, but sometimes he uses the 3rd contract to ride the
wave just in case it keeps going (90% of the time it
4. Now that the trading dome is gone, we can't even see when he
is getting in and out. He makes a call and everyone gets in
at that price and he will tell you, oh I got in at a tick
or two better for some reasons. You know what I get it,
slippage happens, but who the hell are you kidding. This crap
is happening more and more now that the trading dome is not
5. Here is the real kicker in the butt. After telling people to
get out at 2 points, he leaves the remaining contract on the
table just in case it does go up, and guess what they post on
the site for the world to see? A 2.5 POINT PROFIT. Lets break
it down here: One 1 point profit + One 2 point profit + One 2
point loss = 1 point profit (you still have to take out $4.8
per contract for broker fees). Where the hell did they get 2.5
points from. I'll tell you, its from him letting that last
contract run longer, but what the hell? Didn't he just tell us
to get out? A lot of times the numbers on their site don't
even add up to what the actual profits where. They are wrong
%65 of the time on the calls. Thats worse than me flipping a
coin and making a call.
6. Don't even bother trading with them when it gets close to
options expiration. Good lord - ALL the calls are wrong. It
turns into a BUY HIGH and SELL LOW type of trading.

I'm going to start recording them on my computer (I wish I had done this sooner, before they took the trading dome off) so that I can hopefully get my credit card company to reverse the charges. As of yet, my credit card company will not refund me and they will not stop further charges.

Take my word on this, DO NOT SIGN UP WITH THIS COMPANY. TRADERS INTERNATIONAL IS A SCAM AND RIP OFF. Oh, I forgot to mention this, their "PROPRIETARY TRAINING" or what ever the hell they called it is crap. There is a lot more and better free info on than these idiots provide. What they provide is not even training. A kid can put better information together.

And by the way, don't bother questioning them on why they made a call. Whether it was a good call or a bad call, it doesn't matter, the moderator will only yell at you and tell you he will not explain it to you. WTF?

I'm leaving out a lot, but I'm tired of typing all the crap that is wrong with TI.



I stopped trading with them in May of 2009 and have made my own trading signals that work 75% of the time. If you want to learn about trading, go to the video feed is free, but if you want to see them daytrading, just sign up for the 2 week free trial. I have been with them a month before I started with TI and made lots of money. Then came TI and I have now blown my account way under the $25k daytrading limit. Thats why I made my own signals so I can work my way back up so I can start trading stocks again.

Screw playing with the FUTURES as an only source of income. It is harder and more dangerous to play than stocks.

I have warned you....please don't make my mistake. I don't know where else to post this thing to get the word out, but I will be posting it to as many places as I can.

Traders International are only 'analysts' and only 'marketers' who sell indicator-based systems using 'hyped' returns but provide no 'hard evidence' to backup their returns in their trading rooms. They use facebook/twitter to market what other trader’s are saying 'but' they avoid/never talk about their own personal trading - because it does not exist. I personally have asked the hard questions with many emails/phone calls to the Traders International office/Lachlan - which keep getting ignored and they don't return phone calls. The CEO Afshin, Lachlan Elsworth (who is inconsistent & contradicts himself with bad advice/double-standards on trading methodologies during the webinar sessions) and staff at Traders International do not all trade what they teach/preach with their own 'personal' money. They ‘collate/use/steal’ ideas/screen shots from their members/other traders who email them screenshots, see what's working at the time, and then come up with systems and they take the credit for it – however Traders International moderators do ‘not’ give back = they don’t send their own screen shots back to their members who initially give to them. Also, Traders International will not ‘coach’ you unless you fork out ‘more’ money to their trading room subscription - i use to be in their trading rooms in the past = is poor quality and the moderators are not consistent with each other. The moderators ‘live’ trade using a 'test' account (i.e. the company's money), however, none of them trade with their own 'personal' money on what they teach. Traders International do not 'walk the talk'. Do not believe the hype - ask the two most important questions you can ever ask anyone who makes 'bold' statements about returns and/or tries to sell you a product - Q1. do they actually trade what they preach? Q2. if yes, ask them to show you the evidence of all their trade’s 'screen shots' and their personal 'live account statements' to confirm their ‘so-called’ returns? If they do not show you this – ‘walk away’ and save your hard earned money to learn from someone who actually does walk the talk and can 'show' you the evidence to backup their 'hyped' returns! I have been trading for ‘five’ years my own personal signal/system which is only ‘price action’ based – with ‘no’ indicators because all indicators ‘lag’. Stay away from trading education companies who try to sell you a trading system with ‘indicators’. All indicators ‘lag’ and there is ‘no’ consistency in profit returns over the ‘long term’ when trading off indicators – I know this because I have been backtesting for ‘five’ years trying all sorts of indicators. ‘Price action’ alone is ‘king’ – when you know how to read price action ‘only’ – then you will start to trade successfully and will ‘never’ need to use any indicators again! Stay ‘away’ from Traders International – their explanation of trading methodologies are ‘not’ consistent as individual moderators ‘nor’ between each other = this is usually first sign of people not walking the talk themselves when they change the rules/methodology specifics and ‘contradict’ themselves on a ‘weekly’ basis. There are better trading education companies out there who charge a lot 'less', are more consistent and disciplined in their trading methodolgies, and also do ‘not’ charge for access to their trading rooms - however you should never 'shadow trade' from trades called by any trading room moderator - otherwise you will never become an independent trader. Do your ‘thorough’ due diligence before parting with your ‘hard-earned’ money!
Hi Wookie7 - Great Post - I do hope that you are well.
Obviously you have some concerns .... A Quick note - TI Offers one on one coaching to anyone struggling - PLEASE Contact the office immediately so we can help you! Now - onto your post.

Also - anyone can Test our trading rooms for free for a week with no obligation or charge... we do this as we are open and transparent about what we do and how we do it.

As one of the senior traders for Traders International I am very proud of what we are achieving. WE ARE GETTING TONS OF GREAT FEEDBACK FROM MANY HAPPY CLIENTS AND we are delighted by the performance our traders are getting. We do sincerely believe we offer the best education service in SE Asia.

A couple of home truths regarding your post.

1. We do offer one on one coaching at no charge - absolutely - great point.
2. We already have Live trading statements for our FOREX Trading Room as our performance proof. We are implementing the same with Futures right now - very exciting.
3. Price Movement is actually the foundation of our signal set - so great point! The indicators we use are only to guide new traders into the highest probability trades we take - you are spot on and they are very effective at doing this.
4. Based on our price movement strategies, last night alone we had 7 winners and 2 stop outs - if you have indeed been trading for 5 years then no doubt you did better than us......
5. All of our results are confirmed live in our trading rooms in front of up to 130 traders at a time - this offers our traders world class performance transparency! Losers and winners alike are collated to ensure absolute integrity.
6. As for my personal trading - WOW - you must sit behind me when I trade ..... I do not recall you doing this... your comment is simply unfounded! When I coach in the trading room and also in the office every person sees me switch from SIM to Live to take trades. Additionally - it is my own personal 'Lachlan Elsworth' Account. Why would I not trade my own money when the system is so good.
7. Consistency in webinars .... I have taught exactly the same strategy (The 2 Step) for over 7 months with next to zero change. One or two improvements only for the benefit of everyone of our clients. You must have missed these emails as well.....
8. If our NEW trading Team and NEW Strategies were not effective in the markets we trade, we would have no one in our trading rooms. There is 111 in Futures and 37 in FOREX as I currently type this to you ...... we do not get it right every time – but we are very happy with what we are achieving.
8. I have attached a screen shot of one of trades called in the room last night that most traders did very well on... I hope that you did as well or better.

As per the start of my post - if you need help, put your hand up and ask for coaching. I expect you to contact the office this week and lock in a time for your coaching.

I look very forward to helping you out.

I have been a happy Traders International member for over three years now. I trade every day with TI during the US cash market session only (plus 1 hour premarket starting at 8:30am ET) and have only traded futures with them (not Forex). My experience with Traders International has been very positive and nothing short of life changing. In the time I have spent with them I have learned to become a very successful trader. They have taught me things that I would have never learned on my own.

Before joining TI I was a very average trader who quite frankly had no "real" idea what I was doing. I lost many thousands of dollars trading on my own learning from books and the Internet. After quite a few years of frustration I decided to look for a trading service that could give me some guidance and help me become a consistently profitable trader. After a lot of research I decided to join Traders International. It is a decision I have never regretted as they have helped me become consistently profitable with my trading.

If you are new/newer to the world of trading, Traders International can truly accelerate your learning curve by providing its members with the education, support and hands on learning in the live market trading room. You simply cannot replace having a professional trader explain to you why or why not a trade setup is a good one or not. I CANNOT overemphasize this point!

The ecourse TI offers is comprehensive and covers many important trading topics in a user friendly step-by-step online video format. Along with the videos TI provides their members with support that is truly 2nd to none! The live online support classes are provided four days a week to answer all of your questions.

The moderators in the TI trading room are always friendly, informative and above all provide their members with successful trade calls day after day. They thoughtfully explain why they are calling a trade and what makes the trade setup a good one. They will also explain when not to take a trade based on market conditions as well. It’s this “coaching” before, during and after a trade setup that sets TI apart from other trading companies.

TI is always looking to improve their trading techniques and are constantly looking to keep up with changing market dynamics. What worked well last year might not necessarily work the next. This is what separates TI from a lot of other trading companies; their ability (resources) and willingness to change with the market!

One of the biggest and most successful changes TI has ever made to their trading program is changing from all “Indicator” based trading to “Price Action” based trading. Trading off of price action has absolutely been the most important change I have ever made to my trading style…and I have TI to thank for that!

Is trading for everyone, absolutely not! Patience & discipline are an absolute must! I didn’t have either when I first started but TI taught me how important these two personal attributes are. TI has taught me to spot and take high probability trade setups which have resulted in many more winning trades then losing ones. Using the trading knowledge I have gained from TI, I now consistently average a 70-75% trading success rate.

In the end I would highly recommend Traders International to anyone who would like to become a successful trader. If you are newer to the world of trading the ecourse, training and support are absolutely the best you are going to find anywhere, period! If you are an experienced trader looking to become a much more consistently profitable trader then TI is the place to be!
another review on Big mikes trading site.

NOTE: NONE of these comments reveal anything proprietary about Trader's International....nor does it guarantee that your experience with TI will be the same as mine.

I am a "lifetime" member of Trader's International (TI). My experience with them was mixed. While I will not characterize TI as a "scam", I do believe it's value was (and still is) oversold in webinars and sales pitches. I joined in late 2009...and sat in the room every day for months before finally giving up and moving on. The TI "setups/signals" in use at the time simply did not work. The TI "pro room" had been shut down and the moderator "relieved of his duties". The FX room was constantly losing money. The TI daily room continued to trade the S&P emini using non-working signals....all the while continually promising "new setups". The often promised "new setups" did not arrive in the room until late 2010.

I found Traders International a mix of Good News /Bad News:
Bad News:
- The fee for joining TI is steep $$$$.
- Despite selling a "Life Time Membership"....TI still charges a monthly fee for continuing access to it's daily room. NOTE: The "LifeTime Membership" does gets you access to the training room..(not regularly updated) and access to the periodic "Question/Answer Training Session" conducted every week.
- The "indicators" that TI still sells (also for an inflated fee) are basic indicators that can mostly be found on the web for much less (free in many cases)....and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what these indicators are or what they do.
- I've been told that TI did pretty well for a number of years prior to 2009....but students who had the misfortune to join much after March 2009 were in for a bumpy ride.
- Recently TI started occasionally using a "secret indicator" to call some of the trades in their room. No education on what it is or how it is used.
- The TI student pages are not updated regularly....some of the old 'discontinued' trade setup training is still out there, and it still confuses some new students who diligently start trying to learn.
- TI is STILL...after all this time...."working on" getting training updated on their webpages for new setups/signals. NOTE: some of the new "setup/signal" training is available.

Good News:
- TI has one room moderator who truly does care about teaching trading...and who (I firmly believe) wants students to learn and be successful at trading.
- TI offers raw beginners a fair amount of hand holding with regard to setting up trading accounts, selecting a broker, and getting your trading platform (NinjaTrader) setup.
- The TI moderator (mentioned above) spends a lot of time providing overall market training....trends/trend lines/ Fibonacci/Volume/Market Delta/Price Action/ etc. You name it and this guy will eventually spend several hours explaining it. While all this information probably confuses some people, and it is way more info than any one person will use in their trading....he does provide a broad range of market related information/training.
- The daily TI "signals/setups" have migrated away from the old Fibnoacci numbered tick charts and very simple basic divergence a combination of minute and range charts. The new calls are based more on Price-Action, and the room trading results (since very late 2010) appear to have become more profitable and reliable.

SUMMARY: I have been in multiple trading rooms. Some offered training and live-trade rooms, while others only offered "follow along live trading" and some offered only "training".
None of them were perfect. Some were downright terrible. Every trading room I was in, had people that love it, and had people that hated it. Everyone learns differently. Some people need more help than others. Some people need more 'emotional support' than others. Some people have no idea at all what day trading Futures is, or what they really have in store for them before they become profitable.
For most folks....I think it is an excellent idea to get training/help and a mentor.
Having said this.... I would not make TI my first suggestion.
While I am sure some folks came away from TI feeling good about their experience....(it is not my place to dispute their personal experience)....I would direct beginning/intermediate trader's elsewhere.
The quality of all trading rooms seems to fluctuate over time, but the better ones manage to maintain a reasonable ongoing standard of performance. If you are motivated, have the time and the resources to learn on your all means go for it. There are lots of trading books, free trading webinars, and free Internet material. If on the other hand you want to shorten your timeline and reduce risk, then find someone to help you.

At this point....if asked....I would suggest taking a look at Roger Felton's Trading room Get the Financial Freedom and Life You Deserve Trading Futures Like a Pro Roger has done several webinars on BMT. His approach to trading is primarily Price Action based....and Roger tends to use indicators more as "electronic highlighter" to draw attention to price action, rather than as Holy Grail signposts to be followed blindly. Roger has posted many of his indicators on Big Mikes Elite section for free....(although this does not include his trademark code DivPro).

Hope this review helps someone....

Yes, as a former member of TI, I paid and learned deeply that many of these trading companies that
charge a lot up front- just resell indicators and their 'lessons' expensively; you will learn just
as much reading about indicators on the internet. Yes, they have live trading, but most of them, did not give much if any profits. Their coach (Rich) seemed to help, but the main indicator he used
was basically a slow moving average placed over a fast moving average- that set up works some of the time. Their FX coach, Erica, used a simple indicator that did not work most of the time.
She blew out many accounts and she did not trade well herself. I don't blame her, because we all run into bad weeks, but she only knew one method- which is a very dangerous type of trading.
Yes, TI became very cagey in showing their results. Once proudly displayed, but now, hidden and you have to call them to get them. It's a good idea in having a live trading room, but you have to attract very good coaches. Here TI , do not have great coaches, their limits have been tested, they only know one method; and when that method does not work , then you have to learn quickly when to walk away. I left them and joined another room. Trade smart everyone- and you are more
likely to profit. It does take a lot of work...Cheers, G.
High everyone,

I am the person who started this post in 2009. I have since put this whole mess of putting my brains and hard earned money in someone else's hands behind me. I am happy to see that this site has saved some people from falling prey to these scam artists. Sadly, I also see some people have ignored my warnings and have learned the hard way that Traders International and other similar sites are a total scam. They trade in SIM and therefore will always get better results than would be possible in a live account and that's IF they make profits. Haha, what a joke. You believe in your system so much that you trade in SIM? That says it all.

Hey Afsh*t...I mean Afshin, screw you and that money pit that you have created. You do nothing but make peoples life miserable by instilling false hope. You prey on people's emotions and weakness to get them to willingly give up their hard earned money for nothing in return. The only credit I will give you is the fact that you are very good at marketing that scam of a company you call Traders International.

By the way, don't even begin to compare yourself to an education system like a university. There is absolutely nothing in your so called training course that is helpful to a beginner trader. All the garbage you make such a big deal about is free and can be found in a much more coherent manner than the sh*t that you have compiled. You cant compare yourself to an institution that teaches people something useful through TEACHERS when you DON'T TEACH ANYTHING.

I am so glad I stopped using TI and started using my own brain to trade because I am THANKFULLY and successfully making money. I mentioned in one of my previous posts that I have learned to trade by adding to my position. I take large swings and don't use stops because I know what my pain tolerance is and I will close out the trade if I need to. Everyone needs to learn what works for them and trade that way. I don't care who believes me and who doesn't anymore because I have experienced the hard times and now the profitable times. I just hope the rest of you wise up and learn from me so you don't have to hit rock bottom like I did. Anyways, I'm done writing because I am getting flash backs to 2009. I wish you all a successful trading career.
I love how the moderators of this site have pointed out the fraud from this company (Different names from the same computer), hahahaha lmao, what a bunch of idiots. Traders International (TI) goes so far as to post lies from the same computer, trying to act like different people. If this doesn't make you run away from this company, then you deserve to loss money. This just puts fuel on the fire that I started about this company and their underhanded tactics to steal money from people in any way they can. Thank you so much for posting that tidbit Day Trader. Their underhanded tactics only make my case stronger. Wow, this made my day. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

day trading | 29-Dec-2010 at 10:50 AM | Rep: 14.5k | Posts: 5,654 | @mypivots | mail
Those reading this topic will probably find it interesting to know that the following members who have recently commented in this topic share the same IP address. i.e. They are the same person:
- peetie
- SanSingh
- Rush
- michrizz
Hi Traders - my name is Lachlan Elsworth, the MD for TI in SE Asia. I have the privilege of now running TI and can I tell you the changes have been amazing and very deliberate. We now have one goal - teaching people how to trade and do it very well and I formally apologize if you had a bad TI experience prior to me taking over.
Not on my watch but I am happy to take the wrap and just get on with trading!!!

I have bought in my own management team, my own professional trading team, my own trading style and my own market selection. We now trade currency, commodities and share indexes and teach you how to do exactly the same. We recently broke our Day and Week Trading Records!!! Suffice to say the trading rooms are an amazing place to get educated and very profitable!!!

I openly invite any one who has purchased the TI program prior to me taking over to come and visit the office, get some one on one coaching, understand how we trade the markets and then I will shout you free time in the trading room to reinforce the new trading style.... FREE Time!!!

GO FOR IT and I look forward to your thoughts! Lachlan.
Hey there, Lachlan Elsworth here, MD for Australia. TI has changed, so has the team, the strategy and the markets. I am keen to show you what we are doing and coach you if you want - I am now very proud of the results we are getting and I would love to coach you if you are open to it. Lachlan.
Anyone associated with TI will be black listed because it doesn't matter how many MD's come and go, this company will always do what it does people off by praying on their weakness or misfortune. A wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.
I hope everyone is doing good and staying away from companies like Traders International. I have not traded for over 2 years now because a few weeks after I posted that comment in 2012, my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer and after a long struggle, he ended up passing away. Just wanted to update this post and show that what I posted was not fake. I have attached a pdf of my month end statement in Jan. 2012 to show anyone who doesn't understand what a real trade statement looks like or for any of you who didn't believe me when I said I was making way over 20k per month without the help of crooks like Traders International! I have also included a daily statement in pdf format as well and NO I'm not going to leave my name or account number on there. I always take out anything above $110k-$120k from my account. Taking money out above a certain limit you set for yourself is a must; hard to explain why, but it helps psychologically. Go and compare the statements that Traders International(TI) shows to fool people who are newbies into believing their lies. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried copying this or something similar to make their simulation trades look like real trades. This will be my last post here. Good luck, stop being sheep, and stop being lazy. Do the leg work required to teach yourself because the information is on the internet for free. You just have to find it and stop relying on other people to do the hard work for you.
Click link to access uploaded file:
Statement on 01252012.pdf

Click link to access uploaded file:
Statementon 01312012.pdf