Tsunami Trading Educators
http://www.tsunami-trade.com/
Here comes another system--which costs a whopping $6500--that claims to use no indicators whatsoever, only proprietary charts, to day trade the ES. I swear these sites are multiplying faster than roaches in an old soup can. What is so special about trading on price action? It's been done ever since markets existed but lately has become so new and vogue.
I've taken the free trial a couple of times and I'm not impressed. It obviously is targeting the novice trader who has spent a lot of time and money on other trading tools and still is losing money. Who else but the desperate and/or naive would wire $6500 to someone's bank account who, like most others in this con game business, won't even disclose their name, let alone a phone number. In addition to sending your money in a non-recourse fashion, new members are required to sign an unbelievably one sided disclaimer http://www.tsunami-trade.com/disclaimer.html that doesn't even tell you where this company is located. In addition, a search under "who is" reveals an anonymous front hosting company (Tucows).
In fact, the guy who runs this shop (Blade) is so paranoid and secretive that he doesn't even let other members communicate amongst themselves away from the room. He totally forbids any sharing of emails, IM, or Skype and is lightening quick to erase any such posts. On several occasions I witnessed him bleeping out this type of info AND admonishing the person who posted.
What I found particularly interesting was the use of shills in the room to praise and tout the system to the folks who were in for free trial. This is a variation of the three card monte scam in which the people winning money right and left (in this case alleged "members" who expound the virtues of this system ad nauseum) lure the unsuspecting visitors to get on board. Blade himself is the biggest showman when he makes the right call on a trade, making it seem that the magic secret of interpreting price action through this so-called proprietary system is the answer to your dreams. And indeed, the website has all the bait with pictures of folks living their fantasy lives on some tropical island with a Ferrari in the driveway.
In the two weeks I spent in the room, I calculated a win rate of approximately 59% as defined by a trade making one point before hitting a 1.25 stop. No great shakes. Blade claims the system is "robust" in that it gives many signals during the trading session. (I witnessed 10 calls in one day.) When a trade gets stopped before profit Blade has a litany of excuses that are too long to mention in this thread; suffice it to say as any true conman, he knows how to put a spin on the negatives as if it really wasn't all that bad. For example, the market is "acting violently" and the price action, therefore, can't be properly discerned. Blame it on anything but the system. After a couple of quick stopouts in a row, he takes a break as moderator and the room sits in silence.
Although I'm not privy to his secret system, my observations tell me he uses a short term candlestick chart (10 or 15 minute) calling out buys at obvious support and sells at resistance. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of technical analysis and chart reading could easily make the same calls. I also believe he uses a modified pivot point for his early morning calls which I did find funny. (f X price is broken, expect to go to Y and if that is broken, the Z and vice versa for the upside).
The free trial is worth the price of admission for entertainment, but not much else.
Here comes another system--which costs a whopping $6500--that claims to use no indicators whatsoever, only proprietary charts, to day trade the ES. I swear these sites are multiplying faster than roaches in an old soup can. What is so special about trading on price action? It's been done ever since markets existed but lately has become so new and vogue.
I've taken the free trial a couple of times and I'm not impressed. It obviously is targeting the novice trader who has spent a lot of time and money on other trading tools and still is losing money. Who else but the desperate and/or naive would wire $6500 to someone's bank account who, like most others in this con game business, won't even disclose their name, let alone a phone number. In addition to sending your money in a non-recourse fashion, new members are required to sign an unbelievably one sided disclaimer http://www.tsunami-trade.com/disclaimer.html that doesn't even tell you where this company is located. In addition, a search under "who is" reveals an anonymous front hosting company (Tucows).
In fact, the guy who runs this shop (Blade) is so paranoid and secretive that he doesn't even let other members communicate amongst themselves away from the room. He totally forbids any sharing of emails, IM, or Skype and is lightening quick to erase any such posts. On several occasions I witnessed him bleeping out this type of info AND admonishing the person who posted.
What I found particularly interesting was the use of shills in the room to praise and tout the system to the folks who were in for free trial. This is a variation of the three card monte scam in which the people winning money right and left (in this case alleged "members" who expound the virtues of this system ad nauseum) lure the unsuspecting visitors to get on board. Blade himself is the biggest showman when he makes the right call on a trade, making it seem that the magic secret of interpreting price action through this so-called proprietary system is the answer to your dreams. And indeed, the website has all the bait with pictures of folks living their fantasy lives on some tropical island with a Ferrari in the driveway.
In the two weeks I spent in the room, I calculated a win rate of approximately 59% as defined by a trade making one point before hitting a 1.25 stop. No great shakes. Blade claims the system is "robust" in that it gives many signals during the trading session. (I witnessed 10 calls in one day.) When a trade gets stopped before profit Blade has a litany of excuses that are too long to mention in this thread; suffice it to say as any true conman, he knows how to put a spin on the negatives as if it really wasn't all that bad. For example, the market is "acting violently" and the price action, therefore, can't be properly discerned. Blame it on anything but the system. After a couple of quick stopouts in a row, he takes a break as moderator and the room sits in silence.
Although I'm not privy to his secret system, my observations tell me he uses a short term candlestick chart (10 or 15 minute) calling out buys at obvious support and sells at resistance. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of technical analysis and chart reading could easily make the same calls. I also believe he uses a modified pivot point for his early morning calls which I did find funny. (f X price is broken, expect to go to Y and if that is broken, the Z and vice versa for the upside).
The free trial is worth the price of admission for entertainment, but not much else.
quote:
Originally posted by redsioux
quote:
Originally posted by ahk
This just arrived in my mailbox. Looks like Blade is burning out his rolodex since I've already taken the trial under this email address. Unfortunately, there was no unsubscribe link.
<<<1/6/7
...... We have now exclusively partnered with Trademaven, www.trademaven.com who provide the charts for our clients exclusively. These charts are not indicators but they enable us to see in an objective fashion, The Waves of the Market. This allows more objective system trading, where course members can see the same trades and entry prices. This is in distinction, we believe with other systems out there, where it always seems like the vender sees the winning trades while the student only sees the losing trades!......
Notice what I put in italics. He is half right with this statement. In his case the vendor doesn't see winning trades either.
In fact, he stated in the room a couple of weeks ago, "even though he was calling lousy trades, his students had the software and he had trained them to use it". So even if he was calling losers, "his students should be able to make money on their own".
So he is saying the system is so easy and mechanical a student should be able to trade it profitably, but the person who created it cannot trade it. If anybody can explain that logic to me I would appreciate it.
Anybody thinking about signing up for this rip-off should remember:
1. You will not be able to PM anybody in the room, post your phone number or email, or make any negative comments or you will be booted and banned from the room.
2. You will not be able to report anything that goes on in the room to any third party.
3. According to the contract you sign before you get "the keys to the kingdom" Blade is not obligated to even tell the truth. Hard to believe, but if you take the time to read the lengthy legalease it is there.
4. You will be required to sign a statement that you have received "everything" you paid for BEFORE he will give you the software.
5. Blade has never revealed his real name or identity.
6. Even though Trademaven has made some glowing statements about Tsunami Trading, they can provide NO DOCUMENTATION TO BACK UP THEIR STATEMENTS. When asked if Blade had ever traded 20 consecutive profitable days (what Blade requires his students to do before trading live) they were SILENT.
Hitler and Goebbels would be jealous of Blade's tactics.
Of course the reason for all of this is Blade knew the system was a farce from the beginning, but he never prepared for the day when everyone would also find out and Im certain he never prepared for this thread, his worst nightmare. He thought the legalize and intimidation tactics would stop any member from voicing their opinion on the Web for fear of retribution, but he never thought an outsider would expose him. Kudos to all you members who took the high road and voiced your experiences. Hopefully you will have saved many a poor soul from getting ripped off.
I'm not a lawyer (sometimes I wish I was) but perhaps someone with more legal experience can give us some advice here: Could a carefully worded letter to Trade Maven make them more accountable if Tsunami Trading Educators were fraudulent in their advertising and/or claims? For example, the letter to Trade Maven would state that you were relying on their endorsement of TT and their due diligence in taking up the membership with them (TT)...
Guy,
I'm not a lawyer or forensic specialist, but I understand there are many ways of tracing individuals to the computers they use regardless of these things. Most servers keep logs including proxies. People who think they are anonymous on the Internet are delusional. The best way to hide your actions is to go to an Internet cafe, wear a mask and pay cash if they accept it just like in the movies.
I'm not a lawyer or forensic specialist, but I understand there are many ways of tracing individuals to the computers they use regardless of these things. Most servers keep logs including proxies. People who think they are anonymous on the Internet are delusional. The best way to hide your actions is to go to an Internet cafe, wear a mask and pay cash if they accept it just like in the movies.
quote:
Originally posted by ahk
Guy,
I'm not a lawyer or forensic specialist, but I understand there are many ways of tracing individuals to the computers they use regardless of these things. Most servers keep logs including proxies. People who think they are anonymous on the Internet are delusional. The best way to hide your actions is to go to an Internet cafe, wear a mask and pay cash if they accept it just like in the movies.
Guy, this was meant to respond to your TZ post question. Can you move it.
I copy and replied to you in the TZ thread.
You can probably guess before I even say it - that's right, the strategy changed again today. Now instead of 2 pt targets for the 2 lot traders, "we are going to hold for Tsunami Targets".
Again today Blade spent much of his time pointing out where "we could have entered according to the system". You will find it amazing, but every one of those "coulda" trades was a winner. But, you ask, what about the trades he actually called that you could get filled on?
Well, compared to his calls most days, today was GREAT! He called 3 losers, 3 winners, and 2 b/e trades.
So if you are a l lot trader, you lost 1 pt net, the 2 lot traders made 2.5 pts net before commissions. I am not nearly as smart as Blade, but it looks to me like a 2 lot trader traded all day to make $45 after commissions.
Blade announced that he was "very happy" with the trades today. He should be happy, he has half a million $ in his pocket from all his victims (oops, I mean students). When one of the free trialers said he was trading Blade's calls, Blade was quick to remind him that "this is for entertainment purposes only". Hmmm, I think this is very expensive entertainment.
He couldn't stop bragging on how accurate his "morning call" levels were today. This morning he said you would learn whether to buy or sell at these levels once you paid your $6.5k. Who is going to teach us that Blade? You? Based on your trading results the last four months, I don't think that holds much promise of making the $million/year you predicted.
Again today Blade spent much of his time pointing out where "we could have entered according to the system". You will find it amazing, but every one of those "coulda" trades was a winner. But, you ask, what about the trades he actually called that you could get filled on?
Well, compared to his calls most days, today was GREAT! He called 3 losers, 3 winners, and 2 b/e trades.
So if you are a l lot trader, you lost 1 pt net, the 2 lot traders made 2.5 pts net before commissions. I am not nearly as smart as Blade, but it looks to me like a 2 lot trader traded all day to make $45 after commissions.
Blade announced that he was "very happy" with the trades today. He should be happy, he has half a million $ in his pocket from all his victims (oops, I mean students). When one of the free trialers said he was trading Blade's calls, Blade was quick to remind him that "this is for entertainment purposes only". Hmmm, I think this is very expensive entertainment.
He couldn't stop bragging on how accurate his "morning call" levels were today. This morning he said you would learn whether to buy or sell at these levels once you paid your $6.5k. Who is going to teach us that Blade? You? Based on your trading results the last four months, I don't think that holds much promise of making the $million/year you predicted.
From the testimonials page on tsunami web site:
Is Blade now going by the name Obe One?
quote:
Unsolicited Testimonial Received 1/4/7
Blade:
Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know how much I appreciate your honest and straight forward approach as you post calls, and evaluate the results of the calls in our member trading room.
As you know, I have been a member for less than a month, and continue to learn every day. The detailed market analysis you cover during our daily morning call sessions enlightens and humbles this investor of many years. I do not take lightly the value of your mentorship.
The first slide you presented during the first day of training introduced me to the idea of looking at the markets in a different way. I am amazed and lighted with the insight, perspective, and integrity that are an intrinsic part of the Tsunami trading room every day.
Many Thanks Obe One !!!
WD
Is Blade now going by the name Obe One?
quote:
Originally posted by elite trader
From the testimonials page on tsunami web site:
quote:
Unsolicited Testimonial Received 1/4/7
Blade:
Just wanted to drop you a note to let you know how much I appreciate your honest and straight forward approach as you post calls, and evaluate the results of the calls in our member trading room.
As you know, I have been a member for less than a month, and continue to learn every day. The detailed market analysis you cover during our daily morning call sessions enlightens and humbles this investor of many years. I do not take lightly the value of your mentorship.
The first slide you presented during the first day of training introduced me to the idea of looking at the markets in a different way. I am amazed and lighted with the insight, perspective, and integrity that are an intrinsic part of the Tsunami trading room every day.
Many Thanks Obe One !!!
WD
Is Blade now going by the name Obe One?
Hmmm, what a glowing endorsement. I wonder who WD is? I don't remember anybody with that name in Hotcomm room.
You notice that not once does WD say anything positive about the accuracy or win/loss record of Tsunami Trading. Its nice that he appreciates how Blade has "enlightend and amazed" him, but wouldn't it be nice if Blade would just tell us how to use Tsunami to actually make more winning trades than losers.
Just for the record, at one time today there was only 11 students in the member room. When Blade asked if anyone was still there, between member and trial room there was only 9 responses.
WD, do you wonder where the 70+ people are who paid $6k to learn the Tsunami system? Think about it.
Lastly WD, you know Blade does not allow anyone to trade live till they have had 20 consecutive profitable days sim trading. How many consecutive profitable days do you have after a month of being enlightend and amazed in the room?
Blade started out the day with this pronouncement, "we are only looking to sell this morning". His first call was a buy, and he called 2 more buys before noon.
He had a good sell at 9:40. It went his way almost 4 points at which point he said "see, I told you only sells this morning". He also proclaimed "with our system, we know exactly where to put stops". After that announcement, he allowed the trade to retrace all the back to +1 pt before he got out. He had ast least 2 more trades today that moved big time his direction AFTER he got out. Of course it was "the power of reading price action" that told him when to get out".
It was another day of "believe it or not, the system had a good entry (you fill in the blank) that would have been a winner". Its interesting that all the trades he points out in retrospect are winners, and most of the trades he calls in advance are losers.
I had to leave early today, but as of 3:00 pm he called 6 trades that would have filled. A 1 lot trader would have made 1.75 pts net (not per contract) before commissions. (First time in weeks that the 1 lot trader made money.) The 2 lot trader lost 1.5 pts net before commissions.
His opinion of the day? "We had great entries, and we did pretty well". "We just need to maintain our averages, and we will have a great year".
Hmmm Blade, weren't you the one who said "we usually make our 4 (that is 4 pts/contract) by around 11:00 and then just take the rest of day off. Hell, you haven't even made 4 pts in a week for over 2 months. When are you going to admit you are a fraud and just quit enticing more suckers to send you $6.5k.
He had a good sell at 9:40. It went his way almost 4 points at which point he said "see, I told you only sells this morning". He also proclaimed "with our system, we know exactly where to put stops". After that announcement, he allowed the trade to retrace all the back to +1 pt before he got out. He had ast least 2 more trades today that moved big time his direction AFTER he got out. Of course it was "the power of reading price action" that told him when to get out".
It was another day of "believe it or not, the system had a good entry (you fill in the blank) that would have been a winner". Its interesting that all the trades he points out in retrospect are winners, and most of the trades he calls in advance are losers.
I had to leave early today, but as of 3:00 pm he called 6 trades that would have filled. A 1 lot trader would have made 1.75 pts net (not per contract) before commissions. (First time in weeks that the 1 lot trader made money.) The 2 lot trader lost 1.5 pts net before commissions.
His opinion of the day? "We had great entries, and we did pretty well". "We just need to maintain our averages, and we will have a great year".
Hmmm Blade, weren't you the one who said "we usually make our 4 (that is 4 pts/contract) by around 11:00 and then just take the rest of day off. Hell, you haven't even made 4 pts in a week for over 2 months. When are you going to admit you are a fraud and just quit enticing more suckers to send you $6.5k.
This week is free trial week at Tsunami - correct?
Is blade's name John by the way? From what i ve seen, his latest scam is TsuBot, which he claims has an extremely high win rate in all markets. Watching it trade live, it's obvious that reality is much different. Interesting that he only takes into account the first profit target which is no more than eg 3 ES ticks or 5 GBP/USD pips (which is really 2 after spread which he totally ignores, but that should be expected as he has never placed a real trade himself). The corresponding stop loss is several times larger, a sure recipe for disaster. Avoid them at ALL costs no matter how tempted you feel to waste 6-7k
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