Traders International = SCAM ARTISTS

Traders International (TI) is a SCAM and RIP OFF!!!!!!

Yes, I might as well where a dunce hat and sit on a donkey. These guys are the biggest scam artists on earth. I have been trading with them since April 09 and have yet to make any damn money from their bullsh*t indicators. I have done nothing but lose money with these idiots since i started. It's a f*cking crab shoot. Lets just say that I can flip a coin and make better guesses.

Here is how they count their points gained:
1. When I started, they used to show the ninja trader dom while the moderator trader and made calls. We could see the entry and exits. Now they have taken the dom off the screen completely. Their excuse at first was that it kept crashing, but now it's because they don't want to show it. Instead they just want to show us their sh*tty charts.

2. They use the ninja trader dome (which I really like by the way) and the damn thing is in sim and the jerk offs try to convince you that its live. If it were live the account number would be showing. How stupid do you think we are? Well, I guess pretty stupid for signing up with them.

3. When they showed the dome while we were trading, the moderator would always try and get away with a losing trade by saying that you should have taken your profits when I told you at 1-4 ticks, which is horse sh*t since he said to go for 2 points profit and loss. Let me give an example of how they trade:
1. You have to remember that they are supposed to give you clear
entry and exit points (which they don't) and lately the
moderator supposedly makes a call and oh guess what,
"the mic was off again, you guys didn't hear me make that 3
point trade?" This has happened 4 times in the last month
since they took the trading dome off the screen. Also, the
rooms are in privatized mode so that you can't see what other
people are saying or complaining about. Only the Signal
room, previously called the Pro room, allows you to see what
others are saying; and it's funny that the same people
(about 10) consistently post profits. The rest of the time the
moderator is yelling at people and telling them that it's
their fault that they got out too early or too late. - It goes
something like this: "We are only going for nibbles here
traders (1-2 points)." And when you are in the trade: "I
suggest you take profits here at 1-2 ticks because this is not
going anywhere" or "you should get out now at about 1 point
loss, oh wait, hang on let me look at the price action
again." some people end up getting out at 1 point loss (only
to have the market turn around and actually go in their favor)
and the others get out at 2 point loss. God forbid if it goes
in his favor and you say something, because he will rip you a
new hole. He basically says "It's your fault, you should have
stayed in the trade longer" EVEN AFTER HE SAID TO GET OUT.
2. he starts with 2-3 contracts.
3. he takes 1 out at 1 point and usually the other 2 at
2 points, but sometimes he uses the 3rd contract to ride the
wave just in case it keeps going (90% of the time it
4. Now that the trading dome is gone, we can't even see when he
is getting in and out. He makes a call and everyone gets in
at that price and he will tell you, oh I got in at a tick
or two better for some reasons. You know what I get it,
slippage happens, but who the hell are you kidding. This crap
is happening more and more now that the trading dome is not
5. Here is the real kicker in the butt. After telling people to
get out at 2 points, he leaves the remaining contract on the
table just in case it does go up, and guess what they post on
the site for the world to see? A 2.5 POINT PROFIT. Lets break
it down here: One 1 point profit + One 2 point profit + One 2
point loss = 1 point profit (you still have to take out $4.8
per contract for broker fees). Where the hell did they get 2.5
points from. I'll tell you, its from him letting that last
contract run longer, but what the hell? Didn't he just tell us
to get out? A lot of times the numbers on their site don't
even add up to what the actual profits where. They are wrong
%65 of the time on the calls. Thats worse than me flipping a
coin and making a call.
6. Don't even bother trading with them when it gets close to
options expiration. Good lord - ALL the calls are wrong. It
turns into a BUY HIGH and SELL LOW type of trading.

I'm going to start recording them on my computer (I wish I had done this sooner, before they took the trading dome off) so that I can hopefully get my credit card company to reverse the charges. As of yet, my credit card company will not refund me and they will not stop further charges.

Take my word on this, DO NOT SIGN UP WITH THIS COMPANY. TRADERS INTERNATIONAL IS A SCAM AND RIP OFF. Oh, I forgot to mention this, their "PROPRIETARY TRAINING" or what ever the hell they called it is crap. There is a lot more and better free info on than these idiots provide. What they provide is not even training. A kid can put better information together.

And by the way, don't bother questioning them on why they made a call. Whether it was a good call or a bad call, it doesn't matter, the moderator will only yell at you and tell you he will not explain it to you. WTF?

I'm leaving out a lot, but I'm tired of typing all the crap that is wrong with TI.



I stopped trading with them in May of 2009 and have made my own trading signals that work 75% of the time. If you want to learn about trading, go to the video feed is free, but if you want to see them daytrading, just sign up for the 2 week free trial. I have been with them a month before I started with TI and made lots of money. Then came TI and I have now blown my account way under the $25k daytrading limit. Thats why I made my own signals so I can work my way back up so I can start trading stocks again.

Screw playing with the FUTURES as an only source of income. It is harder and more dangerous to play than stocks.

I have warned you....please don't make my mistake. I don't know where else to post this thing to get the word out, but I will be posting it to as many places as I can.

thats very funny...

I fogot about Nevada... I belive Franz just uses a form of basic S/R without a slight variation of pivots...Basically hes looking to short from the highs or vice versa..Since most days are range hell have some success...its just the strong trending days that he runs out of paper to wipe his ass...He keeps adding on to losing positions till he closes the room.. His "paper" losses were over 20.000 on certain days.... Its amazing this ass clown is still around..
Originally posted by pt_emini

Now's your opportunity to watch all this live in front of 100's of traders ...

Live Trading the Russell 2000® Index Mini Futures
When: 11/12/09
Time: 9:00 am cdt
Presenter: Traders International
Speakers: Afshin Taghechian

In this live event Afshin Taghechian, Founder & CEO of Traders International, will demonstrate how he trades the Russell 2000® Index Mini Futures using his account. Afshin will look for trades in Russell 2000® Index Mini Futures and show you:

• The set ups and indicators he uses, such as MACD and Stochastic
• Why and where he places stops
• Why and where he sets profit targets
• How he manages the trade

Did anyone make it to this event?
First, this is not a rant. This is purely about Traders International customer service or lack of same and the lack of a substantive guarantee. This is a little lengthy but worth the read.

This is TI's Guarantee:

100% Money Back Guarantee:
From the day of your initial purchase if our TI Trading Room results (total points) for the following 60 calendar days are not positive you are entitled to a full refund of your tuition investment paid to Traders International. To request your refund simply contact us by email. Upon refund your access will be discontinued.

Now think about what they're saying here. Positive, by what amount? Any amount. It doesn't matter, this is a bogus guarantee. What if you're dissatisfied because the employees at TI treat you like, well you know what I want to say. I can think of a few other reasons. It really doesn't matter. There's nothing like most company's warrant, such as "we'll refund your fees and tuition within 30 days if you are not completely satisfied." That is what reputable company do. They care about their customers. Not Traders International.

You won't be informed of the lack of a satisfactory warranty in the online live session and will not see the bogus warranty above until after you sign up. I'm talking about a 30 day no questions asked guarantee. Flag number one. No guarantee.

Do not sign a contract with these people until you fully understand the following.

You have to wait six months to trade live. By this time you will have paid $6000.00 for course materials and prepaid all of your trading room fees, "to protect you from losses" and your guarantee will have expired. Luckily I filed a written complaint in two weeks from signing. And, I stopped using their services immediately up sending this letter.

So, six months pass and magically, after you pay everything you will now be able to make $1000.00 a day. Flag number two. My own fault. I usually research before I buy. I didn't. That's what guarantees are for.

The sales pitch leads you to believe otherwise. They pitch making $1000.00 a day. Playing on emotions, they are sucking a lot of people into their program at a vulnerable time in their lives. Many have been laid off from work and assume without question that they can make $1000.00 day in the mornings trading e-minis. They assure you after you complete the mentoring process you too will be achieving this substantial cash flow.

What Afshin neglects to tell you is how long you can expect to wait. If fact you'll have to wait 6 months or longer. The latter response was from other traders in the room after signing their contract. There was no mention of this fact during the online live trading session. Flag number two. I wish he had disclosed this one fact on his "online live session". I would not have joined.

The above is like paying a contractor in full for a remodel of your home only to find said contractor won't start for 6 months. And then the contractor files bankruptcy. Not the best analogy, but you get the point.

The most cruel part of this situation is three weeks pass and you have an epiphany, something like, "there is no way this will work the way TI claims." They misrepresented everything. Now you call and ask them to stop charging your bank account and to issue you a refund. The account manager then tells me "sorry we have a contract" and hung up on me. She won't return calls and my most recent bank statement now shows two charges in the same month. Coincidence? They showed me right? I'll charge him twice. I called by bank and am now filing a law suit for damages both mental and financial. I just wanted a refund.

To make matters worse, now you're out of work and they want to still charge you trading room fees on top of 6 months trading fees paid in advance even after you plead hardship. At Christmas no less! I don't know about you but I think these people are heartless. Afshin, their CEO never heard of negotiation where he comes from.

Well my attorney, the SEC and the FTC will disagree if I understand everything I've read on the matter to date. I'm filing complaints with the Better Business Bureau of Texas, NY and any other state they have offices in as well.

Pissed? Yes. I am pissed at myself for acting so hastily. Don't follow my example.

I will post the results of my litigation and or remediation once I go to court, so subscribe to this thread if you want to follow.

A word to the wise. They check these sites, so you'll get all sorts of glowing testimonials. Use your brain. I was emotionally detached at the time as most people were in late 2008. I made a mistake. That's what guarantees are for. I intend to enforce my rights so stay tuned.
Originally posted by phantasmagoria

Frankly, anyone who thinks any of these high priced vendors will make them a profitable trader is delusional.
The guy who bashed day trading radio is completely off his rocker. I subscribe to the site and its awesome. There are two main traders and many others in the trading room sharing buy targets options strategies etc.
Originally posted by jimkane

Thanks for the answer, livingwell.
"Livingwell" it has nothing to do with TI being a good company. I read your post and the fact you defend TI so vehemently misses the point.

It's about the customer service and the lack of a 30 day money back guarantee. If a customer doesn't like TI's service refund the money. You can't do anything about his losses. For that SR is responsible.

If Traders International is so wonderful and has so many members why do they need a dissatisfied customer's money? Refund it plain and simple and the bad taste in "SR" mouth would have gone away.

The same thing applies to me. I just want a refund. Afshin misrepresented his company. I recorded his online session to give to my attorney as proof that his is misleading people.
Hey leblanct,

If you are successful in getting your money back, please let me know as well.

By the way, I'm not mad at losing money, I'm mad that they charged me $10K and promised that they would give clear entry and exit signals; they did everything but that.

It's simple: all they had to do was to actually enter a trade on NinjaTrader AND announce it, then exit on NinjaTrader AND announce it. That's a clear signal. If, maybe, possibly, perhaps, coulda, woulda, shoulda, just doesn't qualify as a clear signal. Do that TI in real time, NOT SIM, and I'd like to see your results be as good as you claim them to be.

When someone pays $10K, they expect to be told exactly when to get in and when to get out. Otherwise, why would you pay that much money to be told it was your own fault? And that's what their service promised, but failed to deliver on!!!!!!
Originally posted by myptofvu
Originally posted by dennho
I agree on the small 1k accounts and margins... I know some brokers like to boast about how they will give you $500/ per contract but I don't see how this will help your trade strategies any bit...

The smaller the margins the less you have to keep in your trading account to trade with, therefore the more you can keep in an interest earning account or other investments.

I see, thanks for the input. Sorry for the delayed reply.

You might be surprised... I actually read all your posts... from start to finish... from the first one to the last one...
Thought I'd tell you that you left me with the conclusion that you're an idiot!
Are you the best advocate/shill that TI managed to find and send over to this forum to post on their behalf?
You call 'sr' a bunch of names based, as one of your main arguments, that he posted a link to a "one man website...". A site that is down... and a whole lot of other BS.
'sr"'s "crime" in this regard is a "typo" in the URL address:
should be

"case closed!"

I'll rather heed the warnings of this "delusional" guy than buy into what this "11 year old company BS" that you spewed over many posts.

God, you're a real idiot!

Originally posted by livingwell

That ‘sr’ is mentally and emotionally unstable which is obvious. ‘sr’ is as well delusional as the following will substantiate.

Remember the link he provided above to the company where he claims he was making so much money before leaving to go to Traders?
Take a look:

Here is what came up for me on Suday Oct. 18, Monday Oct. 19, Tuesday Oct. 20, Wednesday Oct. 21, Thursday Oct. 22 and Friday Oct. 23:

Page Unavailable
Sorry, this page is temporarily unavailable. Tech support has been notified.
• Check the spelling of the address you typed
• If you are still having problems, please visit our support site -

Then when you click on the support link right above this is what comes up:

'Updates On Issues
It has come to my attention that there is a bit of a problem with subscribers being billed more then once because of a glitch in Clickbank. I am working to solve this issue, If you find this to be a problem you are having, please visit our contact page and email me with your issue, to have it quickly addressed.
It is not recommended for any subscriber to sign up using clickbank, if you have clickbank you should think about switching to Paypal, as it seems more dependable'.

Note the use of the ‘I’ above.

‘sr’ is suggesting people go to this company that has 1 person running it. Where the web site is unavailable. A ‘company’ obviously being run from someone’s kitchen table.

Here is another stupefying example of his profound lack of judgment,
The url he posted to a company where he says he made so much money does not work as demonstrated above. When the error page comes up it tells you to click on support.

But he is attempting to lead people to a company whose url does not work, is being run from 1 person’s kitchen table, that prominently promotes the sale of advertising on a web site that does not work? Buy advertising that won’t be seen?

I will close and follow this post with other separate ones with a short breakdown of ‘sr’s’ post.

It is important to remember that ‘sr’ has an agenda. He is trying to get himself in business – and doing it like so many nut cases on the internet do. Attack the competition.

And in this case, it is beyond ludicrous. One unstable, emotionally and mentally unfit to trade, crude, coarse and delusional person trying to attack one of the world’s top companies in it’s field.

I joined Traders International based on their promises of making between $500 and $1000 per day.

Firstly, this is not true. TI publish results on their website every day. If you look at the results from say Jan 2009 to July 2009, they claim to make an average of $ 136.63 per day. This is well short of their $1000 per day amount they continually banter around. This is still below the $500 lower limit which they claim.

Secondly, their published results are not 100% accurate, in my opinion. The moderators make calls and then call to exit the trade however they do not exit and claim a higher profit!.

Thirdly, they trade in simulation. How stupid is this??? They are not prepared to put their money where their mouth is, however they expect their students to front up with real money and trade. What a cop out. If their system was so good, then how come they don't back themselves and trade live funds?

Fourthly, the teach you a system of divergence, and then take trades which do not meet their trading rules.

Fifthly, They promise to take trades all day, everyday, and advertise that you need to trade for about two hours a day. What they do not tell you is that you can not trade in their rooms for the last two hours as over 80% of their calls are earlier in the day. You just sit around wasting your time watching them mess around and watch the market for the last two hours of the cash market.

Then when you go back to them and tell them you took all their trades and still lost money, they call you an idiot and say that you can't trade. Even when you give then your trading stats and trades from Ninja, they recommend you go back to the e-course and do more learning. What a joke.

Then when you finally realise that TI is an absolute waste of time and turn off their room, remove all TI indicators and trade a normal system, you suddenly start to make profits and make real money. Wow, what a miracle, yesterday I couldn't trade as I had no idea, however today I made money.... what a miracle. This is no miracle, this is what happens when you leave TI and stop trying to take divergent signals into strong trends.

Anyway, I could go on for ever, however I just wanted to warn other traders to keep well away from TI. I made the mistake and it cost me a lot of money and wasted time. I want to save you from the same bad experience.

Do a search on the internet, and you'll find many other vendors / trading rooms etc out there that are 500% better than TI. The vast majority are also a lot cheaper than TI and offer a decent guarantee. Do your homework and research before signing up with a trading room.

Good Luck
Originally posted by MACD_Trading

Do a search on the internet, and you'll find many other vendors / trading rooms etc out there that are 500% better than TI. The vast majority are also a lot cheaper than TI and offer a decent guarantee. Do your homework and research before signing up with a trading room.

Good Luck

I have to disagree with this comment. With a few exceptions, these pay-for-rooms all stink and the saying "you get what you pay for" doesn't apply.
I hope everyone is doing good and staying away from companies like Traders International. I have not traded for over 2 years now because a few weeks after I posted that comment in 2012, my dad was diagnosed with brain cancer and after a long struggle, he ended up passing away. Just wanted to update this post and show that what I posted was not fake. I have attached a pdf of my month end statement in Jan. 2012 to show anyone who doesn't understand what a real trade statement looks like or for any of you who didn't believe me when I said I was making way over 20k per month without the help of crooks like Traders International! I have also included a daily statement in pdf format as well and NO I'm not going to leave my name or account number on there. I always take out anything above $110k-$120k from my account. Taking money out above a certain limit you set for yourself is a must; hard to explain why, but it helps psychologically. Go and compare the statements that Traders International(TI) shows to fool people who are newbies into believing their lies. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried copying this or something similar to make their simulation trades look like real trades. This will be my last post here. Good luck, stop being sheep, and stop being lazy. Do the leg work required to teach yourself because the information is on the internet for free. You just have to find it and stop relying on other people to do the hard work for you.
Click link to access uploaded file:
Statement on 01252012.pdf

Click link to access uploaded file:
Statementon 01312012.pdf